60 Years Ago This Week....

The History Channel? | 13 April 2005 | Yasotay

[Yasotay]

Sixty years ago, the US Ninth Army had two bridgeheads across the Elbe River. One was crushed and the other secured. The sixty year old question remains: Should and could we have beaten the Soviets into Berlin?

[Yasotay]

I believe we should have tried .... And your opinion is?

[Slump Tester]

We should have turned Patton loose on them AFTER they got to Berlin.

[DTogo]

Considering the number of troops they lost fighting the die-hard (and they did) remnants of the Third Reich, we shouldn't have any regrets.

[muawiyah]

Berlin was an enormous city. The Deutschlanders said they were prepared to defend it to the death on the ground.

I think they were, and tried to. Glad to see the Russians belly up to the bar on that one ~ means a lot of American boys grew up with fathers FUR SHUR.

[76834]

If I recall my history correctly, this issue was already settled by an agreement with the Soviet forces approaching from the East, Was it Potsdam?

Anyways we were probly better off since the Soviets took horrendous losses taking the capitol,
I remember reading figures in excess of 350,000.

Am sure some friendly FReeper will correct me if I am wrong/

[Yasotay]

I was stationed in Berlin for three years and studied the battle extensively. The battle inside (except for some pockets like the Reichstag) of Berlin was a "Mopping Up" exercise. The actual "Battle for Berlin" was decided long before the Soviet Offensive on the 16th of April.

[Mears]

No. The Soviets were our allies.

We were exhausted and still had to finish the war in the Pacific.

Lines had to be drawn,and they were.

[Lando Lincoln]

FWIW......60 years ago yesterday, FDR died at the age of 63. What was the impact of that on the path to Berlin?

Lando

[bd476]

EUROPE: The great German arsenal city of Essen fell today in the wake of three American armies racing over the last 100 miles to Berlin at a clip that was expected to bring a juncture with the Red Army in the next 24 to 72 hours (April 11) ...

American Ninth Army tanks smashed through the Elbe river defenses today, striking into the last 50 miles before Berlin, and Lt. Gen. George S. Patton’s Third Army splintered Germany’s east front supply lines with a 46-mile dash for Halle and Leipzig (April 12) ...

A solemnly hushed house of commons adjourned five minutes after it had convened in London in respect to the memory of President Roosevelt (April 13) ...

Gen. Mark W. Clark announced today that the “spring offensive in the Mediterranean theatre has begun,” with the U.S. Fifth and British Eighth armies engaged in operations along the entire Italian battlefront (April 16).

World War II Remembered

[albertabound]

The Soviets claim the battle of Berlin cost them a million casualties, after which they raped and pillaged the place.

[76834]

Wouldnt have worked!
At that time the Soviet forces were the most massive and powerful land force on earth.

Had Patton attacked the Soviets he would have suffered the same fate the Germans did at Kursk

[Yasotay]

Yalta .... but even Churchill wanted Ike to take Berlin.

[muawiyah]

The battle of concern took place on the "approaches" and not in the city. Right?

The Russians were welcome to it.

[Yasotay]

I can't argue with you on those points.

[76834]

Thanks for the correction Yasotay.
Been a long long time since I studied history, but some things I learned stand out.

Thanks Again

[Yasotay]

Hitler celebrated, he thought it was a turning point. He was wrong. I don't think that FDR's death had an impact on the decision to not take Berlin (but I could be wrong).

[Americanexpat]

Patton may have wanted to go for the Soviets, I doubt very much the troops who had fought from North Africa to Germany wanted to. Why should they when they have been told the Russians were our allies?

[Yasotay]

I think the 2nd AD's bridgehead being crushed on the Elbe tilted Ike to stop. The 83rd ID had a very strong brigehead across the Elbe at Barby. I think that Ike was hoping to take Berlin "On the Fly".

[76834]

Correct
At that point in the war it would have been totally insane to attack one of our allies, specially since we didnt have the forces in theatre to have the slimmest hope of winning.
The Pacific Front was reaching it's zenith and the Soviets had already agreed to move forces East to help us once the German offensive was over.
And well they did.....

[Yasotay]

The numbers were huge and the accounts vary. Officially the Soviets say the Battle started on the 16th of April 1945. But even today ... 60 years ago ... Zhukov launched a "Recon in Force" with 30+ BATTALIONS. I believe the real Battle started in late Jan 1945 when the Soviets crossed the Odor.