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[Montana] Senate kills self-defense bill
The Bozeman Daily Chronicle ^ | April 7, 2005 | WALT WILLIAMS

Posted on 04/07/2005 5:56:38 AM PDT by Brian328i

HELENA -- The Senate shot down a bill that would have spelled out that people have a right to use guns to defend themselves Tuesday.

House Bill 693 by Rep. Jack Wells, R-Bozeman, died an unusual death. It was first amended by senators to strike out everything in the bill except one small section prohibiting employers from firing employees who keep guns in vehicles parked in the company parking lot.

The Senate then moved to indefinitely postpone the bill because the amendment pretty much erased its entire purpose.

Sen. Mike Wheat, D-Bozeman, who suggested the amendment, was pleased to see the bill go down.

"We don't need to go down this road where everybody starts arming themselves and killing people," he said.

The final vote came after more than 90 minutes of debate with senators relating their own scary encounters while both armed and facing people who were armed.

Some lawmakers were bothered by language in the bill saying citizens had no duty to summon law enforcement when threatened with death or bodily injury.

It spelled out how people could defend themselves with guns, but it also ordered law enforcement to seek out all evidence of self-defense when that was used as a plea.

Sen. Joe Balyeat, R-Bozeman, supported the bill, relating recent news from Bozeman about a convenience store clerk who was raped while police encircled the store.

"There are many, many times when the police are ineffective because of the circumstances to deal with the situation at hand," he said.

The bill in its original form was opposed by law enforcement groups. It had since been trimmed back significantly to address their concerns.


TOPICS: Government; News/Current Events; US: Montana
KEYWORDS: banglist; gun; m; selfdefence
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To: Brian328i

It could very well be a mixed blessing that this bill was killed. I looked over the bill online, and it appeared to me to be watered down, and probably do more harm than good.


21 posted on 04/07/2005 6:36:39 AM PDT by BigSkyFreeper ("Stupidity is also a gift of God, but one mustn't misuse it" - Pope John Paul II)
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To: Semper Paratus
Why it happened in Montana is best illustrated by the following exerpt from today's editorial page of the Wall St Journal: "...Not only had the citizens of the nation's fourth largest state elected a Democratic candidate as governor for the first time in 20 years, they'd also rolled back GOP dominance to a 50-50 split in the state House, taken a 27-23 majority in the Senate, filled virtually every position of real authority in the state's higher offices with Democrats, and defeated referendums on re-allowing cyanide leaching in mining (despite millions of dollars of industry lobbying money promoting the idea) while approving of the medical use of marijuana.

The only victories of consequence for the GOP were the re-election of Republican Denny Rehberg to our state's single seat in the House of Representatives and the passing of an amendment that defined marriage to be a contract made exclusively between a man and woman. Oh, and the re-election of President Bush..."
22 posted on 04/07/2005 6:37:52 AM PDT by balticbeau
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To: Bringbackthedraft
"We don't need to go down this road where everybody starts arming themselves ......................to defend their lives and property. (I think this is what he is really thinking and saying)

Well, what is wrong with that??? i.e. "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to bear arms, shall not be infringed!

23 posted on 04/07/2005 6:39:24 AM PDT by meandog (bellum nec timendum nec provacandum)
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To: Brian328i
Some lawmakers were bothered by language in the bill saying citizens had no duty to summon law enforcement when threatened with death or bodily injury.

Where in the Constitution (federal or state) does it say that a citizen does have a duty to summon law enforcement? I have heard that LE has NO duty to come when called, but never heard that the citizen is obliged to call them. What's wrong with a law acknowledging the obvious?

24 posted on 04/07/2005 7:25:00 AM PDT by Graymatter
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To: Brian328i

It sounds like refugees from the PRC are turning Montana into another socialist hellhole.


25 posted on 04/07/2005 7:46:56 AM PDT by AlaskaErik
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To: AlaskaErik; Bear_Slayer; Leatherneck_MT; BigSkyFreeper
It sounds like refugees from the PRC are turning Montana into another socialist hellhole.
I think the rest from Montana would agree that theres ups and downs to living here, just alot of influx from the liberals over the years and the fact that Montana does have quite a few more Government jobs compared to the rest of the nation. I believe on average Nationally it is 1/5 jobs are Federal, where-as in Montana 1/4 jobs are Federal. Also you can not forget the people who come here like ol' Ted Turner.
The Montana democrats are very disturbing also, they protray themselves as being pro-gun (remember what happened to our good buddy Max when he voted for a gun-grab-bill, the next slot up for relection he was barely re-elected due to that vote IIRC) but I believe given the opportunity to take everything away and model us after some other liberal bastion they would.
26 posted on 04/07/2005 8:05:09 AM PDT by Brian328i
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To: Brian328i

Self defense? That's pretty radical. Who's life are these gun-nuts trying to protect anyway? It all sounds very selfish to me. /sarcasm


27 posted on 04/07/2005 8:12:56 AM PDT by TigersEye ("It's a Republic if you can keep it." - B. Franklin)
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To: Leatherneck_MT

Must not have many "OJ" jurors in Montana....


28 posted on 04/07/2005 8:58:15 AM PDT by Les_Miserables
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To: Brian328i
Some lawmakers were bothered by language in the bill saying citizens had no duty to summon law enforcement when threatened with death or bodily injury.

How could anyone oppose this provision when the courts have ruled time and time again that the police have no enforceable duty to protect an individual from any given crime?? So, they're not accountable for stopping a crime, but we're to be accountable for calling them anyway???

29 posted on 04/07/2005 9:37:05 AM PDT by Still Thinking (Disregard the law of unintended consequences at your own risk.)
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To: Bear_Slayer

Just because some new organization runs a story doesn’t mean it is true.

We all have to realize that anti’s lie all the time.


30 posted on 06/11/2022 3:40:31 AM PDT by riverrunner
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To: BigSkyFreeper

One of the existing rules of self defense in Montana. If the laws are anything like in the State of Washington there are also additional laws that touch on self defense, justifiable homicide, etc. However, from what I can figure out, some of these laws, while still on the books, have been modified based on case law.

For example, in Washington state the law states that you can shoot someone to prevent a felony. Case law however says you can’t shoot somebody when they are “just” stealing your car.

Just like in the below law and the last sentence “to prevent a forcible felony”. To me that would be some guy grabbing me and tossing me out of my car and stealing it. But I’m guessing that case law probably doesn’t allow one to shoot the car-jacker as they are driving away. I suppose you could say he was driving the car right at a bunch of kids that he was going to run over.

45-3-102. Use of force in defense of person. A person is justified in the use of force or threat to use force against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that the conduct is necessary for self-defense or the defense of another against the other person’s imminent use of unlawful force. However, the person is justified in the use of force likely to cause death or serious bodily harm only if the person reasonably believes that the force is necessary to prevent imminent death or serious bodily harm to the person or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.


31 posted on 06/11/2022 4:04:37 AM PDT by 21twelve (Ever Vigilant. Never Fearful.)
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