Posted on 04/01/2005 7:47:01 AM PST by marshmallow
FATHER FRANK PAVONE, PRIESTS FOR LIFE, NATIONAL DIRECTOR: Last night, I spent about two hours with her until past midnight, together with Bobby Schindler and Suzanne, and then again this morning for about an hour and a half, and then right up until about ten minutes before she died. We were praying, most of that time was spent simply in prayer, in quiet, just caressing her, and assuring her, also, of the prayers and concern of so many people around the world.
Q: Was their any sign of response from Terri Schiavo?
PAVONE: Yes. And let me tell you, I’ll preface that by saying I visited with her several times before the feeding tube was removed. She was very responsive--closing her eyes when I said, “Let’s pray together, Terri,” opening them up after the prayer. Smiling, returning the kiss of her father. Turning her eyes to me when I spoke to her. In many other ways, as well, responsive.
Even today, although, of course, with the effects of the dehydration, her response was much less. Nevertheless, her eyes were open, her eyes were moving, and as I prayed with her, her eyes were shifting over toward my direction--even until the last moments that I was with her.
Q: Now, of course, we are going over old territory, but it’s important to note here, you’ve heard the doctors who suggest that that is all reflexive, that none of it was a conscious movement on her part--either eye movement or anything else. What do you say to that?
PAVONE: Certainly amazingly-time “reflexes.” I’ll give the doctors the benefit of their own expertise. But this raises, of course, the deeper moral issue. Give them what they are saying. What does that mean? That someone at a lower level of functioning can just be starved to death?
That, of course, is the bigger question here. This is not just a death. This is a killing.
And we have to ask ourselves, has our nation now begun to go down the road of killing those who are disabled, simply because somebody says that they want to be killed?
Terri didn’t die today from anything except the fact that her food and water were withheld for the last two weeks. She had no other underlying illness whatsoever. This is a case of throwing away a disabled person.
Q: Father, do we know what happened to the Schindlers, Terri’s parents, during these final moments?
PAVONE: Yes. We were in communication with them this morning by phone, and they were then on their way over here, actually, when we heard the news of Terri’s passing, and then all of us were together inside the hospice just moments after that announcement. They went in to Terri, of course, to embrace her body. I stood at the door and offered the prayers of the church, for those who are just deceased, and of course we sat and just consoled on another, and now they are grieving privately at home. They are going to have a statement a little later.
Q: Were you able to give Terri her last rites?
PAVONE: I was able to give Terri absolution last night. She had already been given the fuller last rites of the Church by other priests in recent days.
Q: It sounds as though, thankfully, there was not a direct conflict between the Schindlers and the Schiavos during these last moments.
PAVONE: Yes. Thanks be to God. Had she lived another hour or so, I’m afraid there might have been, because Bobby was saying, “I will be glad to be in her room, even with Michael there. I want to be there.” And Michael was saying, “No. I don’t want that.” But then she died before that conflict when any further.
Q: There was no reconciliation, then, between the two parties in this fight?
PAVONE: Not as of this moment. I have appealed publicly to Michael to reconsider his whole position here. And even now that Terri has died, I make that appeal to him again, because, again, this affects people way beyond Terri. This affects many, many people who are and are going to be in similar situations.
We all have to, as we grieve, examine our consciences, and say, “What are we going to do with the disabled? How are we going to treat them?”
Q: Some people say this is such a unique situation, because she didn’t have a living will, because there was some dispute about whether Michael had her intentions in mind, that this makes a bad case to base any kind of precedent on. What would you say to that?
PAVONE: Well, first of all, as far as how people should handle these situations, a healthcare proxy--namely, a person who can speak for you, if you are in a situation where you can’t speak for yourself--is much better than having a piece of paper. A piece of paper cannot interpret itself. People can begin arguing over what a piece of paper says, just as they can argue over what people said to them verbally. The best thing is to have a living person who knows you, whom you trust, whom you’ve discussed these issues with, and who then, when you are in medical circumstances in which you cannot speak for yourself, that person can get, from the doctors, the exact details of what can be done for you, and then in consultation with the clergy of their choice, make the proper decision at those moments.
So, in that sense, yes. There were elements here that led to the conflict. However, the solution is broader than that. We do have, here, a classic case of the question of throwing away disabled people. This woman was killed. She didn’t die of a terminal illness. She was killed, and it is a matter, therefore, of conscience, right now, for us all to ask: “Is this what we are going to continue to do with brain-injured people?” Because, whether they have expressed their wishes or not, obviously it can result in their death, as has happened today.
Q: Father Pavone, is the nation better off for having examined the issues that came to the fore with Terri Schiavo’s death?
PAVONE: We are much better off for having examined them. We at Priests for Life work with the clergy throughout the country. We will ensure that we continue to examine them in the teaching and preaching of the Church, and in the discussion among the people. We would be glad to be part of that whole debate as it ensues.
// Felos, manipulator of the audience that he is //...
Yep. And I see you noticed the reptilian aspect as well.
When did Bobby describe what happened? Did you read it or was he on TV?
So the ad hominem is only intended for the non-"Wild Turkey" FReepers?
There is a movement in progress by the "progressives" to facility that idea. It's the same thing that started the reign of the Nazis and Hilter that lead to the mass murders of anyone the considered useless, unproductive, sub-human, or an inconvience. What happened to Terri was from this through the Hemlock Society.
Read this (skip down to post 3, it's easier to read)http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/1371331/posts and you'll see that Terri never had a chance and her poor family fought against all the odds. This was plain and simply a conspiracy (and I am not one to yell conspiracy)
For two reasons, I suppose. First, the disabled remind people of incapacitation and death, which many worldy people are inordinately afraid of. Secondly, they may feel guilty for not helping the less fortunate.
I stated that I chose to disregard Felos' version in favor of Bobby's...
And you then accused me of ignoring "the FACTS."
In what way could your statement possibly be interpreted other than endorsing Felos' statement as being "the FACTS?"
thanks for posting it anyway.
"Your assumptions are as far-fetched and as wrong as your preconceptions."
"You might try asking me, rather than opening your opinions and inserting your foot."
My assumption was not unreasonable.
There is one quote on your homepage. It's from one of the 20th century's most famous atheists.
Combined with your skepticism of all of Fr. Pavone's words, I'm inclined to believe that there's some pre-existing baggage impinging on your thoughts.
Everything I've heard Pavone say has been measured and incisive. He's highlighted exactly what has happened here.
I'm asking....politely....where did you hear/read Bobbys' description of what happened?
An excellent assessment, IMO.
Since you have now proven that you know nothing about Russell, your incorrect assumption is of little worth.
I like the quote. I also like Russell's quote that "the time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time." I guess that makes me an atheist, too - even though Russell wasn't.
On the news. Last night - I'm not sure which appearance. I saw some of Scarborough, a little of the CNN fest, and a little of Greta.
Thank you Pegita, I had missed that one. I was on overload last nite and didn't check in here much. Very moving and spot-on by supercat.
"troll"
It took me 7 years of posting here to reach that status newbie...Hallelujah
So sorry for being new (although I've lurked for years). Trolls are trolls regardless of where they're found IMO.
Thank you
As far as I knew, after the statements from Bobby and his sister, they didn't make any other appearances/statements. I must have missed it....
great perspective... Terri was determined to live... the doctors said she would survive 1 to 2 weeks... She made it 2 full weeks... A PVS patient would not have made it that long...
Felos doesn't seem concerned that people will notice he keeps contradicting his earlier stories.
Felos has given 3, 4, or 5 versions of the reason Michael didn't let the Schindlers be in the room.
Yesterday, Felos repeatedly blamed the "venom" of Father Pavone as the reason that the Schindlers were not in the room.
Felos Slams Fr. Pavone of Priests for Life (Accusing Him of Speaking "Venom"
Felos' unspoken message seemed to be, "If you associate with a Right-to-Life priest, you will not get to be with your loved ones when they die."
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