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Terri Schiavo - A moral conundrum for you. [Vanity]
Neutrino | 03/31/2005 | Neutrino

Posted on 03/31/2005 5:37:12 PM PST by neutrino

The courts ordered all water and nourishment to be withheld from Terri Schiavo. This was more that removal of the feeding tube - no one was permitted to give her a drink of water or a crumb of bread.

As we know, she survived for 13 days. Presumably, it was known that she was in pain, since she was given morphine.

The question is coming. First, a small disclaimer - I don't think Terri Schiavo should have been killed.

Question: since the court's order was, in essence, an order to kill her, would it not have been kinder to have ordered her execution by lethal injection, hanging, or in the electric chair? She would have had a quick death instead of a slow death by dehydration and starvation.

Bonus question: Is being disabled now a capital crime?


TOPICS: Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: schiavo; terri
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To: OKIEDOC

My view FWIW - Satan is laughing, God isn't. In time, those who rejoice will understand, and regret. God has forever - the misguided ones don't. Guide your heart towards prayer whenever you feel the hatred and anger building up.


41 posted on 03/31/2005 6:30:45 PM PST by Enterprise (Abortion and "euthanasia" - the twin destroyers of the Democrat Party.)
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To: Norman Bates

Morris declares the pro-life movement dead?! Is this FR or "Make Me Laugh"?!

I will say this to the original question: you are making the arguments the euthanasia advocates WANT you to make. "We shouldn't starve and dehydrate disabled people...it would be so much more humane to give them a lethal injection". The proverbial "playing into their hands". This issue MUST continue after Terri's death. Because this is about life defined by "quality". Ultimately this will be about the new eugenics. Already women abort children with defects. Already we starve the disabled. Already wanted care is denied under the guise of "futility". Already we ration health care. And we're behind the rest of the so-called enlightened world.

I am profoundly afraid for the future.


42 posted on 03/31/2005 6:32:05 PM PST by Electrowoman
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To: righttackle44
I would have just thought that this is not even a subject for decent people to chase.

I must (respectfully) disagree. If the courts can create what is, in essence, a death sentence in one way, why cannot they do the same thing in another way?

More pointedly, what is the difference between killing Terri by not letting her have a drink and some other method?

If there's no difference, where can the courts go with this? If there is a difference, what is it?

Your fate and mine depends on the answer.

43 posted on 03/31/2005 6:32:48 PM PST by neutrino (Globalization “is the economic treason that dare not speak its name.” (173))
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To: Aussie Dasher
The Terri Schiavo case should be a warning to us all. As for myself, I am planning to try and make friends with as many judges as I can because it is now apparent that these robed sunsabitches have gained life and death powers over all of us. There's a lot of these crooked bastards wearing robes who are fully capable of developing a blood lust now that one of their slimy brethren has gotten away with murder. We see it every day in ruling after ruling as the bastards free murderers, terrorists and shades of other criminals while making it harder and harder on honest, law-abiding people. I hate to toady up to the bastards but I am following Darwin's first law. Shades of Torquemado!
44 posted on 03/31/2005 6:33:58 PM PST by daddypatriot
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To: Aussie Dasher

The Terri Schiavo case should be a warning to us all. As for myself, I am planning to try and make friends with as many judges as I can because it is now apparent that these robed sunsabitches have gained life and death powers over all of us. There's a lot of these crooked bastards wearing robes who are fully capable of developing a blood lust now that one of their slimy brethren has gotten away with murder. We see it every day in ruling after ruling as the bastards free murderers, terrorists and shades of other criminals while making it harder and harder on honest, law-abiding people. I hate to toady up to the bastards but I am following Darwin's first law. Shades of Torquemado!


45 posted on 03/31/2005 6:34:42 PM PST by daddypatriot
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To: neutrino

Here's a tip: If you want to post a vanity stating what has already been said about 5,000 times, with no additional insight, just don't do it.


46 posted on 03/31/2005 6:35:57 PM PST by BCrago66
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To: righttackle44
I'm not disgusted with Freepers. I would have just thought that this is not even a subject for decent people to chase.

Describe Decent People !

What is Decent in one persons eyes is horrid in another's and vise-versa i should think that all manners of peoples should be discussing this issue with a certain amount of tact and responsibility at the very least with more than terri died !

I just hope that the purveyors of this capital crime of killing the handicapped meets their just rewards

I am most troubled about this than many would know in the matter of my own senses i feel as if my guts have been ripped from me never in my whole 45 years did i ever think it would come to this in these United States of America . when a woman or man for that matter could be starved to death under the watchful eye of a whole country and not even a President can stop an out of control judiciary

Welcome to the Oligarchy

47 posted on 03/31/2005 6:36:00 PM PST by ATOMIC_PUNK (What are we as a country without our God Our law or our Constitution FREEDOM pales without all 3)
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To: neutrino

Since Terri wasn't brain dead, what happened to her was euthanasia, and as such should have been done in a more humane way -- taking no chances that she would suffer.

I thought euthanasia was illegal in the U.S. I guess it's neither legal nor illegal -- how can that be?

This situation reminds me of the story, The Emperor's New Clothes.


48 posted on 03/31/2005 6:38:01 PM PST by cookiedough
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To: Norman Bates
Hey ... that reminds me ... I'd started a reply to you somewhere on the First Ladies which I'll go finish up.

Norman, I don't wish to drag you down or anything -- it's only going to hurt a little while, I promise -- but Morris is correct. The whole Republican "Pro-Life" thing is a joke. In fact, the whole idea that it's Democrats behind the "environmental" movement is likewise a joke. That's just one reason Bush's comment upon his 4/11/2001 approval of the UN POP treaty was such a laugh riot. I can look it up for you, but it went something like this:

And now a Republican administration will finish the work of a Democratic administration. This is how environmental policy should work.


Do you want to know WHY it was so funny? Because the GOP set up in 1970 the "briar patch" into which they were to be repeatedly thrown by the Dems thereafter where population control and the environment were concerned. It's all there -- black and white -- in the Congressional Record. Sure, they have to be kinda careful when speaking to abortion directly but they make a bang-up argument for the "moral obligation" of the government to educate the public to take the proper "remedial" actions lest the government be forced to enact "controls".

(They don't get specific about abortion until Kissinger's 1974 defense memo NSSM-200 in which he states pretty plainly that no nation has ever enjoyed successful population control sans abortion: "abortion is vital to the solution" of population control at home AND abroad.)

I doubt very seriously there's a damn thing we can do about it now but -- honestly -- I think that it's far better to be informed such that things finally make sense instead of getting your chain yanked all the time by a bunch of pretenders blowing smoke at you like you're some Pavlovian dog who's going to salivate every time someone says "God bless".

I'm sure if it were the least bit a serious or even "partisan" issue, even ONE of the First Ladies (besides the now pro-human farming Nancy Reagan) would have been against abortion. Don't you think so?

I mean ... even if the years and years and years and years and years of listening to yahoos like Alan Keyes yet bored you to tears and left your heart unmoved, surely the fact that lockstep Dems managed to beat your team every time they pulled the abortion card would get to you after a while, no?

(And I think it does ... else how to explain Barbara Bush's 2000 explosive suggestion that we yank the damn human life plank out of the platform entirely. I'll bet if anyone's sick to death of "keeping up appearances" it's Barbara "Abortions in the First Trimester Only" Bush.)
49 posted on 03/31/2005 6:40:19 PM PST by Askel5 († Theresa Marie Schindler, Martyr for the Gospel of Life, pray for us †)
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To: BCrago66

You say..."Here's a tip: If you want to post a vanity stating what has already been said about 5,000 times, with no additional insight, just don't do it."

Heres a tip for you as well...44 people on this thread dont seem to mind all that much that he did.


50 posted on 03/31/2005 6:42:13 PM PST by Dat Mon (will work for clever tagline)
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To: Bruceski

I'm FOR capital punishment.

A 8-year boy in our neighbor was kidnapped and murdered and his remains weren't found for 9 months. His murderer confessed and plead guilty and received the death penaly. The killer, Perry Austin, asked to be moved ahead of the line so as to hurry-up his execution. All fine and good!

Then on the DAY of his execution, the folks who give free legal advise, counseling, etc. etc. visited him and persuaded him to accept the automatical APPEAL, which he is entitled -- but which he originally refused until these liberal anti-death penalty people talked him into appealing.

Now, we the tax payers have to pay to feed and clothe and care of and entertain him until we go through the process to AGAIN give him the dealth penalty.

What a pity that these noble (sarcasm off) people weren't so concerned with the life of Terri.


51 posted on 03/31/2005 6:43:00 PM PST by i_dont_chat
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To: neutrino
Question: since the court's order was, in essence, an order to kill her, would it not have been kinder to have ordered her execution by lethal injection, hanging, or in the electric chair? She would have had a quick death instead of a slow death by dehydration and starvation.

Indeed. But I doubt it would have provided the incentive for folks to get their "Living" wills in order and start lobbying for a more Humane Society style approach to offing folks in lieu of the starvation already legal in all 50 states.

52 posted on 03/31/2005 6:43:34 PM PST by Askel5 († Theresa Marie Schindler, Martyr for the Gospel of Life, pray for us †)
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To: neutrino
Question: since the court's order was, in essence, an order to kill her

The court order to kill Terri was not 'in essence' it was 'in fact'....

Judge George Greer's order stated that, "the guardian, Michael Schiavo SHALL have the feeding tube of the ward, Theresa Schiavo removed at 1PM on March 18, 2005."

And because of that order, Judge George Greer should be tried for murder for causing the starvation death of an innocent woman......

53 posted on 03/31/2005 6:50:56 PM PST by eeriegeno
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To: neutrino

OJs Scumbag Lawyer Johnny Cochran died of an inoperable brain tumor.....


God Will Not Be Mocked


54 posted on 03/31/2005 7:01:55 PM PST by joesnuffy (The generation that survived the depression and won WW2 proved poverty does not cause crime)
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To: ATOMIC_PUNK

You strike an important nerve: "... a whole country and not even a President can stop an out of control judiciary." I would respectfully note that the verb "can" is infact the wrong word; will would seem more appropriate since two other branches of OUR GOVERNMENT could have met the issue in Constitutional crisis and made a large contribution in bringing the out of control and unholy tyrannical judiciary into the 'co-equal' ring.


55 posted on 03/31/2005 7:04:06 PM PST by MHGinTN (If you can read this, you've had life support from someone. Promote life support for others.)
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To: piasa
In the case of the first position, that of principle, the examiner's report is irrelevent, no matter its claims or determinations.

That is why I included it. Terri Schindler Shiavo's death is irrelevant with respect to holding one or the other principled position.

Release of ME evidence may lead to factual information which causes those straddling the fence to jump down on one side or the other.  Or for the less resolute, it may lead to some fence jumping.  For the principled people, someone is destined to be most unhappy or similarly distressed at the findings in that report.

56 posted on 03/31/2005 7:10:54 PM PST by Racehorse (Where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.)
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To: MHGinTN
Are you aware of the more than a decade of abuse through forced neglect of Terri by her 'husband'? ... I don't need to read an autopsy report to know the man is a monster and was unfit to represent Terri as her guardian.

Wow.  A clairvoyant.  :-)

I'm aware of allegations.

Based solely on the images of Michael Schiavo presented to us via the media, he sure looks like an insensitive, ego centric monster.  But, what appears to be is not always what is.

I would have given Terri Schindler back to her parents.

There is no moral enigma, no moral conundrum, no moral dilemma ... Michael Schiavo proved his utter contepmt for Terri when he forced neglect for more than a deacde.

I hear you.  Now, prove it.

The ME's report may just do that.

57 posted on 03/31/2005 7:16:06 PM PST by Racehorse (Where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.)
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To: MHGinTN
"Actually, I remember him saying 'everyone knows you don't starve to death by withholding hydration and nutrition.' Oddly enough, Dr Deathford (Cranford) tried to jam the same parsing down Scarborough's throat the other night in Cranford's apologetics for euthanasia."

A bizarro POS.

58 posted on 03/31/2005 7:20:14 PM PST by Miss Behave (Beloved daughter of Miss Creant, super sister of danged Miss Ology, and proud mother of Miss Hap.)
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To: Racehorse
I'd wait a few weeks for the release of the Medical Examiner's report. As it stands, whatever position a person takes, the ME's report will provide a better frame of reference to understand what happened.


The Pinellas Park conspiracy: Hospice Board, Felos, Greer, Sheriff Rice, Terri's "warehoused" in Woodside Hospice 5 years+ without being terminal, election campaign finances conflicts, MS a Guardian not disqualified (conflicts of interest), no Guardian reporting etc., etc. You must be kidding!?!
59 posted on 03/31/2005 7:31:41 PM PST by danamco
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To: Bruceski

How do you all stand on the death penalty?


Where do YOU stand???


60 posted on 03/31/2005 7:34:23 PM PST by danamco
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