Posted on 03/31/2005 6:55:11 AM PST by Eurotwit
Breaking now on CNN
(Excerpt) Read more at cnn.com ...
The only person who has relayed that 'information' is Michael Schiavo; ie one person's word against that of another who couldn't speak. The default is life in that situation. It's hearsay as another person stated.
(God, write that one down somewhere cuz it's a stone promise)
Actually, I am pointing to the murkiness of the law, and suggesting that this is what has brought this situation about. Thus, the law should be fixed in order to prevent this situation from arising again next week. I am, you see, trying to present concrete practical solutions to the problem before us, solutions that do not involve fantasies about Jeb driving a Hummer into the hospice lobby and storming the police lines, Rambo-style. I realize this is less emotionally satisfying that that sort of thing, but I believe that it is far more likely to result in real improvements in end-of-life care in Florida.
We can agree to that, general.
It's obvious that we're dealing with a "process/system junkie." No sense wasting our precious energy any further. As all Terri's supporters, I'm completely punched in the gut by all this .. so sorrowful for her loving family .. and praying they be upheld in strength and health to withstand the harrowing days and hours yet to come. May Our Dear Lord blanket them with comfort and healing .. their devotion, dignity and Christian and family love has been awesome and inspiring.
Hearsay is unreliable.........for a reason. Say, for example, I relay at this moment a rumor that Michael Schiavo is so stressed out by all of this that he wants to die. Say his head meets a lead pipe several times, and he winds up in a 'vegetative state'........think they'll pull the plug based on my hearsay evidence? Should they?
Really, I'm not sure why the resistance to changing the law is so prominent. You actually have some real recourse here, at the ballot box - you have the power to fix this situation by electing legislators who will change the law in ways you find more acceptable, for guardianship and end-of-life issues. Take hold of the power and exercise it, for God's sake. For Terri's sake.
The Lord works in strange ways.
O-U-T-S-T-A-N-D-I-N-G!!!!!!!!!
Oh, dear, what a sad picture of Terri's parents. I can't begin to imagine what they're going through now and what they've gone through all this time, or how they stayed sane in the presence of evil incarnate -- Michael. (God has been with them. They were never alone, and neither was Terri.)
Due process applies to civil probate issues, as well as criminal proceedings. I would point out that Congress had the power to order the reinsertion of the feeding tube, via the statutory relief of a mandatory injunction. They did not. Therefore, I find that Congress is culpable here as well. It's easy to blame one person for all this, but that oversimplifies, and worse, it prevents us from making real fixes to the system.
The law is how we seek justice. If justice has not been done, then the law should be changed so it is done next time. This seems self-evident to me, but perhaps not.
I am going to say it again, as one who can go weeks w/o listening to him (or Sean.) But, the last two weeks, these men have amazed me with their stand up for Terri.
It is past time for Congress to get busy, very busy. We have the numbers.
Ball, patch, powder.
Fire!
Several problems with that.
First, there is not a single bit of murkiness to the law. Any child can understand what Article One, Section Two means, and that it has just been brutally raped. Again, you and all the others I've seen on FR taking the position you are are glaringly continuing to ignore that provision of the fundamental law of Florida, and the provision in the Bill of Rights it mirrors.
The law doesn't need to be fixed, y'all just need to quit pretending it doesn't exist.
Secondly, your bit about the Governor 'driving a hummer into the lobby' or whatever is a lying strawman, meant to create an impression that has nothing to do with reality.
A nurse with an order from the Governor could have rescued Terri. The head police officer at the scene of the crime made that clear to me.
Quit spreading evil disinformation. Quit lying.
Additionally: What about those in severe depression. Those people SINCERELY WANT TO DIE.
Yet....doctors have a DUTY to cause that person 1) to admit themselves, voluntarily into a hospital for evaluation; 2) cause that person, through the courts to be ARRESTED and placed in the hospital INVOLUNTARILY......
So as not to be a danger to themselves.
Now, what about 5 years later....the person is no longer DEPRESSED, but you remember that person stating, unequivocably, they WANTED TO DIE, 5 years earlier.
Does that WISH count? Or, does the STATE OF MIND count?
At the time that Terri could STATE HER WISHES, it was AGAINST THE LAW to REMOVE nutrition/hydration from ANYBODY, no matter how that nutrition/hydration was provided.
AFTER Terri could no longer STATE HER WISHES, the LAWS WERE CHANGED (through Felos's help with Senator King) to REDEFINE feeding tubes as "artificial life support" AND to ALLOW for the WITHDRAWAL of feeding tubes in someone who is certified to be in PVS.
Where does TERRI'S STATE OF MIND concerning HER wishes come into play? Before or after the law changed? The new laws were applied to Terri RETROACTIVELY.
That is wrong.
Terri never said she wanted to be DEHYDRATED TO DEATH, as that would have been a CRIMINAL OFFENSE to commit when she could STATE HER OWN WISHES.
You're not his legal guardian. Nevertheless, assuming arguendo that you were, then the law would allow you to do that. "Should" is a question for the legislature. I assume you feel that this standard is too low - if so, then you should be arguing for a higher standard to be put in place by the legislature. I'm of mixed feelings about it, myself - I think that the standard may be too low also, but I'm having trouble envisioning what we might require in its place. Perhaps you can think of something. Maybe that's what the Florida leg. should be thinking about this weekend - that's why we pay them, after all.
Sure, bub. No problem at all. That's why GWB complains about the courts, others complain about the courts, this decision is an example of erroneous fact finding by the courts, and you assert there is no problem with the courts.
I'm not interesting in a dialogue with you, but you ought o know that more people than those you are in dialoge with see your arguments as fatally flawed.
Michael Savage says (March 31) that nearly all are guilty of Terri's murder. He said that he is guilty because he should have brought a 1,000 people and stormed the hospice and went to jail. He said that Jesse Jackson was (is) a fraud: he was there for his own interest and to meet with his apparent old friend George J. Felos. He said that GOP "guru" Karl Rove told both Bushes to let Terri die on the basis of a faulty Peter Jennings poll. So ABC is responsible for Terri's fate too. He said that Jeb and G.W. were unwilling to spend their political capital on Terri, and they will pay a price. He noted that GWB's poll ratings are dropping. "He's already a lame duck, and nobody knows what to think of him any more," said Savage. He said that Jeb Bush can seize the corpse and have a legitimate autopsy outside of corrupt Pinellas County, but he predicted that Bush will again back down.
I wonder if the Bush family will for years be defending (speeches, memoirs, articles, interviews) the brothers' inaction during Holy Week 2005, a week that shall live in infamy.
The US Senate passed legislation that congressional leaders hope will keep alive a heavily brain-damaged Florida woman, Terri Schiavo (R), who has been fed artificially for 15 years.(AFP/Getty Images/File) 
Terri Schiavo, centre, poses with her parents, Mary and Bob Schindler, in this undated photo. (AP Photo/Schindler Family, File)
Sure there is. The law allows you to refuse that inalienable right for yourself. The law defines food and water as "medical treatment". Maybe the laws should be clarified - if the law doesn't allow you to refuse medical treatment, and the law doesn't define food as "medicine", then we don't have this problem.
Secondly, your bit about the Governor 'driving a hummer into the lobby' or whatever is a lying strawman, meant to create an impression that has nothing to do with reality.
LOL. Shall I dredge up some posts where folks were wishing for essentially that, that Jeb and the National Guard would storm in, that W and the FBI would storm in, that Bo Gritz and his merry militia-ites would storm in? LOL. No, it's no strawman - it's been offered as a serious suggestion here. Not by you, that I've observed, but it's certainly been on the table.
A nurse with an order from the Governor could have rescued Terri.
A judge with a bill from the legislature could have saved Terri. Why did no legislative body step up to provide one? Not in Florida, not in Washington, nowhere. They say it's not their fault they sat on their hands, and you're ready to believe them. Don't.
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