Posted on 03/29/2005 8:42:48 AM PST by Grzegorz 246
A Russian Mi-8 military helicopter has crashed in the war-ravaged Chechnya region, with some reports saying six people on board were killed. The crash happened 20km (13 miles) from the main Russian military base at Khankala, near Grozny.
It is not clear whether the crash was caused by technical difficulties or rebel activity.
Chechen separatists have been battling Russian forces in the region for more than five years.
Nine passengers and three crew were said to be on board the aircraft.
But sources differed on casualty figures, with some officials saying no one had died.
Helicopter crashes are common in Chechnya, with a number lost to rebel ground fire, but others coming down because of pilot error or technical malfunctions.
The last incident happened on 11 March, when a helicopter hit power lines, killing 11 soldiers.
Bullet holes were later reportedly found in the tail.
The crash came just three days after the death of Chechen rebel leader Aslan Maskhadov.
Sergey, Poles were also singled out for extermination, at least on the long run, right after the nazis were supposed to exterminate Jews. Polish land was supposed to be given to German colonists.
"I like your stance - cool headed as always."
Thanks for kind words, twinself, but please explain a few things to ms_68 (I'm really mad and furious at him).
Explain to him that this is a moral crime to deny that there were in fact Nazi collaborators among Poles who helped to murder their fellow Polish Jews. I don't care the ethnicity of murderers of course. I simply post the facts and he accuses me of slandering all Polish people. I simply hate chauvinists, whether they are Polish, Russian, Ukrainian or anyone else. I hate when terrible crimes are denied.
Stalin ruled USSR just from 1924-1953. Mere 29 years. Which fact of course has nothing to do with any ethnic Russian in your ideal world because this criminal was Georgian. Congratulations.
"However, if Hitler had won the war, we wouldn't be talking now."
Exactly ! However, when you tried to deny (at least I saw it this way) that there were Poles who collaborated with Nazis in killing Jews, I became really mad. Are you still going to deny that there were ordinary Poles who helped Nazis to kill fellow Polish Jews ? Are you still going to tell me that I attack or slander all Polish People ?
As for Chechnya, the same standarts apply here. What Russian/Local pro-Russian Paramilitary Forces do there is a crime. Nobody has a right to kidnap, torture and murder people simply because they are combat-age (which exactly what happened and still happening in Chechnya). However the folks like Basayev who seized Besland and Moscow Theater are terrible--they seek to establish Islamic Chaliphate in Caucasus--have no doubt about it. Comparing him with Kosciusko is preposterous. Kosciusko had a clear goal of independent Poland. Folks like Basayev seek Islamic Revolution in North Caucasus and Beyond.
Read the quotes--thanks ! I was wrong then--Hitler had plans then for killing the Poles too after the Jews. But it still does not deny the facts that there were Poles (not all but certain segments of Polish society) who enthusiastically aided in slaughter of their fellow Polish Jews.
That's the fact--when you don't deny the reality, things get better. OK--I've got enough for today. My advise to you--read carefully before you write something.
Sure--thanks for your story, twinself. Certainly I would NEVER say that all Poles are guilty of Holocaust on par with Nazi Germany. Certainly there were great Poles who risked their lives to aid and save their fellow Polish Jews. Certainly I would not deny that among Communist criminals there were also Jews by birth (Definitely not by Religion or Tradition).
However, the antisemites who like to mention Jews among communists, "forget" that among the Victims of Communism there were Plenty of Jews too. I.e. Stalin "Doctor Trials" in 1953 nearly threatened to have the entire Soviet Jewry sent to exile accompanied by pogroms. Fortunately, this Monster Died before he had a chance to accomplish his horrific plan.
You see, the problem is that when people start thinking exclusively in terms of Nationalities or ethnicities--not human beings--the things always get out of hand.
Just to add to your thoughts on Chechnya, Here is my blog article.
http://sergeywatch.blogspot.com/2005/03/what-to-do-about-chechnya-after.html
FYI, My #1 trouble with ms_68 was that he initially denied that fact that there were Poles who Participated in Holocaust. He also was hostile when I mentioned the historical facts about Poland-Lithuania commonwealth in 14th-17th century.
Can you just SHUT UP--I'm sick of YOU and YOUR IDIOTIC CHAUVINISTIC FACT DENYING RANTS ! Did I ever accuse all the Poles ? NEVER ! I put some posts for you and others to see what's was going on During WWII in Poland and it was based on actual eyewitnesses accounts. I'm not in court accusing anyone--I'm referencing history.
So what's wrong with saying that there were Poles ("low lives","criminals", etc. but still Poles) who aided in the murder of Jews ? You don't want to hear that a single Pole could be a criminal ? If all these posts referencing well-researched sources are not good enough for you--then go and seek a professional help !
When you talk about criminals, we can agree. They are everywhere: in Poland in Russia in America, everywhere. However when you talk about regular Poles killing Jews, my blood boils.===
Then you may understand that OUR blood boils when you talk that ethnic (mean regular) russians killed polacks.
Russian didn't. Quite opposite first ETHNIC russian president of USSR Gorbachev let Poland out of soviet prison.
No one of russians here are commies. Quiet opposite we all here are anti-commies. And we were in USSR and helped to disbnd those regime. By that we helped Poland and not only Poland to become free.
Now you became free and attack US those people who let you free.
Isn't it stupid?
Really russian proverb says: no good deed which be let unpunished".
The quarell began when someone here (I will not point my finger:)) began to throw around accussions and ask "if anyone don't hate you".
Do you recognise this someone?:)))
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