Playing God [Robert Schindler Yanks Plug on Own Mother]

Guardian Unlimited (The Guardian Online) ^ | Tuesday November 4, 2003 | Suzanne Goldenberg

[Polybius]

.........have collaborated with the Christian right in America ........

Does the Liberal media ever dare to print the phrase "the Jewish Left"?

What is the equivalent of the word "antisemitism" when the bigotry is directed at Christians?

[veronica]

Suzanne Goldenberg is a left-wing witch. She was removed from her post covering the Middle East for the Guardian because of her venomous Israel-hating and her sympathy for the Palestinian jihadis.

[goodnesswins]

DeLay was NOT a hypocrite EITHER.....get your facts right....the situations are NOT the same....although the MSM has been doing a good job of trying to make people believe that is so.

[blastdad51]

Rhetorical question for all:

The courts/judges are the ones who've sanctioned killing this woman, pulling her feeding tube....Who are these judges acountable to?!!!

We need to find out and address this issue with them too!!

[L.N. Smithee]

If his mother couldn't get air herself, doesn't she have the right to have it provided, if we go with the logic that Mrs. Schiavo must be force-fed through a tube if she doesn't get food herself?

The MSM has been misinforming the public for months about this case, so I can excuse the ignorance of a leftist Brit. Out of charity, I will presume that you are not an idiot, and really don't understand the difference. Pay attention, class is in.

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Robert decided to turn off the life-support system for his mother. She was 79 at the time, and had been ill with pneumonia for a week, when her kidneys gave out. "I can remember like yesterday the doctors said she had a good life. I asked, 'If you put her on a ventilator does she have a chance of surviving, of coming out of this thing?'" Robert says. "I was very angry with God because I didn't want to make those decisions."

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Terri Schiavo (or, as you call her, "Mrs. Schiavo") is NOT on life-support. Terri's kidneys are working just fine. Terri breathes perfectly normally, without the aid of a ventilator. Nurses have said that Terri can be and has been fed orally, contrary to the wishes of her HINO (husband in name only), who wants her to DIE. If Terri can be fed orally and her HINO would allow her to be, there is no reason why she could not continue living until she passed away naturally. She would not be in need of the feeding tube which Michael is denying her because it is the only way he can (legally) facilitate her DEATH.

There is no parallel in the cases of Terri and her grandmother, whose kidneys failed (you need at least one), who could not breathe on her own, and who apparently could NOT -- in answer to Robert Schindler's inquiry to her doctor -- "come out of this thing."

Do you get it NOW??? Are you going to continue to claim ignorance, or are you actually that clueless?

[Gondring]

You know I'm not talking about pagans.

I'm talking about Christian writings....writings of such groups that also felt that priests who were corrupt and had betrayed the church shouldn't be dispensing.

Of course the Church hated that, and declared them heretics and with wonderful Christian charity wiped them out. If you are going to define as "non-Christian" anything that was later declared heretical, then it's pointless to proceed. The victor writes the history books, and I'm just pointing out that prior to Augustine of Hippo and the Council of Brega in mid-6th Century, Christians were more interested in God than Church, in Heaven than Earth.

Yet some of the Christians' carvings are still visible today, in northern Africa, where the deaths were recorded as these Christians sought to be with their Lord.

Heck, you might try to marginalize early Christians and claim they were all loonies, but even taking a look at groups like the Donatists and seeing what was done to them must make you feel a bit uneasy, doesn't it?!

[SuziQ]

I asked, 'If you put her on a ventilator does she have a chance of surviving, of coming out of this thing?'" Robert says. "I was very angry with God because I didn't want to make those decisions."

Don't you love all these stories the media has drug up over the last couple of days? First, Tom Delay's father, now Robert Schindler's mother? Too bad they didn't research Terri's life quite as well and interview folks who might have heard HER wishes.

There is a big difference in 'pulling the plug' on someone who is dying and has absolutely NO chance of surviving without it, and starving someone who death, who just might be able to eat in the normal way if given a little bit of therapy. Even if the decision is made to stop feeding someone you NEVER stop giving them fluids because that is what keeps them comfortable as they die. Michael wouldn't even allow Terri that modicum of comfort in her last days.

[TommyDale]

The big difference here is that Terri is not in a coma, does not have Alzheimer's, and has not been diagnosed with a terminal infection such as MRSA. Most elderly patients with Alzheimer's end up that way.

[L.N. Smithee]

They keep pressing apples and telling us it's orange juice...ugh.

In this case, I say it only looks like apple juice. Take a whiff.

[gidget7]

Absolutely right, and common sense. Also life support, when removed, is a quick and painless death, as it is the only thing keeping the patient alive, keeping their heart pumping, truly by artificial means.

Feeding tubes are sustenance, nutrients. When removed there is weeks of starvation and dehydration. NOT THAT SAME AT ALL!!!!! Terri is OBVIOUSLY otherwise healthy, if her body is able to sustain itself this long without food or water!!

[syriacus]

it is a little surprising to learn that Robert decided to turn off the life-support system for his mother.

I'm not surprised he decided to do that. His mother was severely ill.

Here are some symptoms of kidney failure

blood in stools, coma, delirium, hallucinations, confusion, vomitting blood, swelling, etc

.

This will be the new ploy of the Kill-Terri crowd.-----

Find every instance "plug-pulling" by someone who supported Terri...no matter how outrageous the comparison to Terri's case.

My mother, whose kidneys are functioning at a low level, is not obligated, by anyone's morality, to go on dialysis when her kidneys completely fail.

[Trust but Verify]

Did you see the part about her kidneys failing???

So what? My sister-in-law's kidneys failed. She's on dialysis and will be until she can get a transplant. Why didn't Mr. Schindler demand dialysis?

[northernlightsII]

THe opening line discredits the whole story."Terri Schiavo who is in a coma."

[Gondring]

You call her "Terri," and I am going to assume you are a polite person who wouldn't do that without knowing her personally. Of course I call her Mrs. Schiavo, which is the polite thing to do until she suggests I should call her by her first name. I admit I didn't know her.

Based on your personal knowledge of her... (did you know her longer than her husband?) ...did she tell you that she'd want to have her body kept going even after her higher brain functions were gone--that her cerebral cortex (indeed, most of her cerebrum!) was replaced by fluid? Did you know her well enough to extrapolate that would be her preference?

Note...it's quite clear that Mrs. Schiavo is not going to "get better"... Years of therapy didn't help, and her body's in worse condition now.

Note...it's quite clear that Mrs. Schiavo could in no way communicate her displeasure at being force-fed.

Note...it's clear that many courts have ruled as to her preference.

Note...it was Mr. Schindler who initially said that he'd have Mrs. Schiavo's arms and legs amputated and have her cut open, all to keep her body going--even if she didn't want it!

So I think it's very relevant.

BTW, I'm sorry you lost a dear friend. I don't mean this to detract from your personal loss. From what I've read on here, Mrs. Schiavo was like the Second Coming of Christ. Although I think ALL people should have their rights respected, when it's a saint like Mrs. Schiavo, that must be tough.

[deport]

A tube is not a machine. Food and water are not "Medical treatment," much less extraordinary.

---

765.101 Definitions.--As used in this chapter:

(10) "Life-prolonging procedure" means any medical procedure, treatment, or intervention, including artificially provided sustenance and hydration, which sustains, restores, or supplants a spontaneous vital function. The term does not include the administration of medication or performance of medical procedure, when such medication or procedure is deemed necessary to provide comfort care or to alleviate pain.

Then drop on down and read the following section of FL Law....

PART IV

ABSENCE OF ADVANCE DIRECTIVE

765.401 The proxy.

765.404 Persistent vegetative state.

Now what under FL Law isn't being followed in this case?

[dannyboy72]

Either you're on the side of a person's right to self-determination, or you're on the side of tyrrany. I take the former.

I believe in self-determination, but that is not the case here. There is no evidence that this woman ever said she wanted to die. If you look at the timeline, her "wish to die" was only made public by her husband some 7 or 8 years after she became disabled. And I just don't think you can count on the word of a man who can start a new fmily while his WIFE is in this state. If he truly had her wishes at heart, he would have been faithful to her until the final days.

[northernlightsII]

Read Gondring'statement, it sets up the next step in the death cult's plan.IF you can't feed yourself you can be starved to death. Good bye all quadraplegics...

[Gondring]

You're right about the coma part. I posted the whole article for completeness...but I don't think anyone is denying the veracity of the last paragraph, are they?

[tomahawk]

Judaism forbids withholding food and water from a person, if that will keep them alive.

[SCALEMAN]

It took me some time to decide to post to this, but here goes. In '99 my mother suffered a massive stroke which left her brain dead. Her husband was incapable of making decisions on her behalf, so I had to do so. After long talks with many doctors it became clear that there was absolutely no hope for any type of recovery at all. I signed the order to remove the ventilator and sat by her bed until she finally expired. Actually she should have never have been on the ventilator, but the paramedics defrib'ed her and ventilated her without any knowledge of her wishes. For all of those who condemn, all I can say is walk a mile in those shoes.

Allowing someone to die is not euthanisia. Don't get me wrong, I believe that Mrs. Shiavo should be given a chance. The death that she is approaching is agonizing. I also know about this, as it is quite like the final days of some terminal cancer patients. My wife passed from cancer 2 years ago this week. My daughter (an RN, God bless her) and I cared for her here in the home through the process. It was her choice after all the chemo's failed. She knew the process as she was a hospice chaplain.

I think my point is that what is happening to Terry is not equatable to allowing a person die with dignity if that is their choice, and condeming her father for allowing his mother to die isn't the same as what I have read about his daughter's situation.