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1 posted on 03/27/2005 2:37:03 AM PST by mal
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To: mal

A great analysis of the situation- very eloquently written.


2 posted on 03/27/2005 2:43:48 AM PST by conservative cat
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To: mal; Pokey78

Steyn weighs in on TS.


3 posted on 03/27/2005 2:44:38 AM PST by metesky ("Maine: Last to know; First to go.")
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To: mal

Mark Steyn always make his points very well.

"There seems to be a genuine dispute about her condition -- between those on her husband's side, who say she has ''no consciousness,'' and those on her parents' side, who say she is capable of basic, childlike reactions. If the latter are correct, ending her life is an act of murder. If the former are correct, what difference does it make? If she feels nothing -- if there's no there there -- she has no misery to be put out of. That being so, why not err in favor of the non-irreversible option?"


4 posted on 03/27/2005 2:51:52 AM PST by FairOpinion
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To: mal

Another great one.


6 posted on 03/27/2005 2:55:44 AM PST by MarMema ("America may have won the battles, but the Nazis won the war." Virginia Delegate Bob Marshall)
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To: mal
As usual, Mark Steyn says it better than anyone else.

I had a neighbor across the street, dying of cancer, and in his last days his wife would take him for little walks to see the sun and look at the trees. Pointless? Empty? I don't think so.

8 posted on 03/27/2005 3:01:11 AM PST by Malesherbes
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To: mal

"Where do you go to get a living-will kit saying that in the event of a hideous accident I don't want to be put to death by a Florida judge or the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals? And, if you had such a living will, would any U.S. court recognize it?"

Those are my questions.


9 posted on 03/27/2005 3:04:44 AM PST by jocon307 (We can try to understand the New York Times effect on man)
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To: mal; Petronski
And this morning this outrageous gall is exposed over at Drudge

PINELLAS PARK, Fla., March 26 -- Two visions of Terri Schiavo emerged Saturday: Her husband's attorney, George Felos, said he had "never seen such a look of beauty and peace upon her." Schiavo's father, Robert Schindler, whose family has compared her complexion to that of a concentration camp victim, said "she is fighting like hell to stay alive."

Felos, Greer, Michael Schiavo .............. I won't say.

10 posted on 03/27/2005 3:10:46 AM PST by beyond the sea (Colonial Script........... or nationalize The Federal Bank..)
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To: mal

I am hopeing beyond hope that Terri's parents file lawsuit after lawsuit against her pathetic husband and keep him tied up in litigation forever. Lets start an email campaign calling for lawsuits for wrongful death!


11 posted on 03/27/2005 3:12:32 AM PST by dokmad
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To: mal; Outland; MarMema; jocon307

" right and wrong are only reflected by the laws, not determined by them "


12 posted on 03/27/2005 3:14:09 AM PST by beyond the sea (Colonial Script........... or nationalize The Federal Bank..)
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To: mal
"''It seemed not to occur to him that it isn't wrong to burn down barns because it's illegal, but it's illegal to burn down barns because it's wrong. Like other statist politicians, Mr. Trudeau . . . either didn't see, or resented, that right and wrong are only reflected by the laws, not determined by them.''"

Glad that Mark is a 'fringer', like many of us. :)

13 posted on 03/27/2005 3:16:59 AM PST by monkeywrench
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To: mal

The great one sees the forest for the trees.


17 posted on 03/27/2005 3:35:51 AM PST by thoughtomator
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To: mal

I have one question on legality. Is it truly legal for a judge to order that Terri can't be fed by means other than the tube? Is that really a part of the law the Fla. legislature enacted? Seems to me that was the route to attack.Theres nobody in the world could stop me from putting a spoon to my childs mouth.


19 posted on 03/27/2005 3:43:13 AM PST by wiggen (Greer confims the existence of hell)
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To: mal
I'm neither a Floridian nor a lawyer, and, for all I know, it may be legal under Florida law for the state to order her to be starved to death. But it is still wrong.

Well there is at least one aspect of Greer's behavior that is clearly illegal, even under Florida law, and that is his refusal of the parent's request to give her food and water by mouth! The statute that Greer is using to remove Terri's feeding tube was ammended in 1999 to add to the legal definition of life prolonging procedures the words: "INCLUDING ARTIFICIALLY PROVIDED SUSTENENCE AND HYDRATION, WHICH SUSTAINS, RESTORES, OR SUPPLANTS A SPONTANEOUS VITAL FUNCTION".

The key words here are "ARTIFICIALLY PROVIDED." This part of the law authorizes Greer to remove the feeding tube but in no way authorizes him to stop Terri's parents or caregivers from giving her food and water NATURALLY by mouth! Based on the reports of the nurses who said she has swallowed jello and water and the doctor who examined her for the parents there is reason to believe she could sustain her life by taking food and water by mouth. Only Michael and Greer's opposition has prevented her being given this opportunity.

Unless there is something in the law that has not yet come to light, and I have trouble believing any legislature has given a judge the power to stop a person from being fed by mouth, then this order is clearly illegal and an abomination as well as an eggregious abuse of judicial authority but it has apparantly and incredibly gone unchallenged.

FOR HEAVEN'S SAKE, AND FOR THE SAKE OF OUR CONSTITUTIONAL REPUBLIC, SOMEONE CHALLENGE THIS JUDICIAL POWER GRAB AND HAND GREER HIS FIRST DEFEAT AND GIVE TERRI SOME CHANCE!!! JEB BUSH KEEPS SAYING HE MUST FOLLOW THE LAW. HOW ABOUT THIS LAW?

21 posted on 03/27/2005 3:56:17 AM PST by politeia
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To: mal
it is the most grotesque judicial overreaching for any court at this late stage to decide enough is enough.

I generally agree with Steyn.

Not this time.

The court made a finding of fact that Teri is PVS. That may or may not have been accurate, medically speaking.

However, once that finding has been made, under Florida law the rest follows perfectly naturally.

Her husband is designated as her next of kin. As such, he has the legal right to make medical decisions for her.

With the possible exception of the finding of fact as to her medical condition, from what I can see the courts were just implementing Florida law.

If you don't like the way that law works out, change it. Don't whine because the judges didn't overrule the law.

22 posted on 03/27/2005 4:04:24 AM PST by Restorer
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To: mal
Questions?

If someone would sneak into Terri's room and put a bullet in her head to end her misery, would they be charged with murder???

Would that charge of murder be brought against that 'someone' by the Florida State law enforcers?

Why then, isn't Greer being charged with attempted murder?

30 posted on 03/27/2005 4:38:30 AM PST by eeriegeno
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To: mal

http://www.regent.edu/admin/ctl/uselesseaters/


34 posted on 03/27/2005 4:51:03 AM PST by Dick Vomer (liberals suck......... but it depends on what your definition of the word "suck" is.)
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To: mal
I am aghast. If innocent Terri has murdered someone or something along those lines, the ghouls would be screeching to the tallest towers over the injustice of her death.

As an American, I shudder at the thought that someone can be court-ordered to be starved to death in the face of so little evidence to one end or another.

We are all to be judged as a society based on our actions as a people.

I have now come to fear that judgement and righteously so.

35 posted on 03/27/2005 4:55:54 AM PST by Caipirabob (Democrats.. Socialists..Commies..Traitors...Who can tell the difference?)
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To: mal
The sleazoid denied his dying wife last rites... he is a cold blooded bastard. Her humanity doesn't matter to him or nor her being reconciled with God. She needs to be bumped off --- I know, for the greater good. Where have we heard that before? All is I know, is state-sanctioned murder is wrong. And one day in the hereafter, all those responsible for this outrage will have to answer for their conduct before the Supreme Judge.

(Denny Crane: "Sometimes you can only look for answers from God and failing that... and Fox News".)
37 posted on 03/27/2005 4:59:14 AM PST by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: mal

Excellent article.


46 posted on 03/27/2005 5:14:51 AM PST by N. Beaujon (I)
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To: All
As to arguments about ''Congressional overreaching'' and ''states' rights,'' which is more likely? That Congress will use this precedent to pass bills keeping you -- yes, you, Joe Schmoe of 37 Elm Street -- alive till your 118th birthday. Or that the various third parties who intrude between patient and doctor in the American system -- next of kin, HMOs, insurers -- will see the Schiavo case as an important benchmark in what's already a drift toward a culture of convenience euthanasia. Here's a thought: Where do you go to get a living-will kit saying that in the event of a hideous accident I don't want to be put to death by a Florida judge or the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals? And, if you had such a living will, would any U.S. court recognize it?

I don't care what the pro-Death crowd argues, everything they throw back stating she should die is easily refuted in multible ways. Steyn refutes the state rights crowd here in yet another way not cited before. That it is far more likely the courts and medical system will use this to justify putting others to death, than it it the Congress would ever preside over thousands of cases.

And he makes the point about living wills I've made. If the Court can decide if you die, they can decide to invalidate your living will. This is known as Judicial Tyranny. I hope those of you that supported her being killed fully realize what you've brought down in terms of precedent, because I won't feel sympathy years from now when you complain about the end result.

53 posted on 03/27/2005 5:35:27 AM PST by Soul Seeker
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