The Schiavo Stakes: What the Fight's Really About

New York Post (online) ^ | Mar. 25, 2005 | John Podhoretz

[Zivasmate]

THE SCHIAVO STAKES: WHAT THE FIGHT'S REALLY ABOUT -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- March 25, 2005 -- THE looming death by starva tion of Terri Schiavo has ex posed yet again the key fault line in American culture. Those who have sided with her parents in seeking the reinsertion of her feeding tube have a view of life that is profoundly different from those who have sided with her husband's quest to have her die. Those who want her to live tend to view life as a gift — a treasure beyond value that has been bestowed upon us and that we therefore have no right to squander. The giver of the gift cannot be seen by the human eye, and the essence of the gift cannot be seen either. We usually call that essence the "soul." Our souls define us: They make us who we are in the deepest sense. And they transcend us as well: They are our connection to the divine, to all in the universe that is unseen and unknowable but is still there. Most religious people share this set of beliefs, which is why those who have pushed hardest to save Schiavo are devout Christians. Many of those who want her to die, by contrast, view life as a natural phenomenon — a collision of egg and sperm that gives rise 280 days later to a baby. That baby is the product of human interaction, deriving genetic information equally from mother and father and recombining it into a new human form. It's a wonder, but it's not a miracle. It's explicable within the laws of nature, and so there isn't anything necessarily transcendent about it. In some sense, then, the human body has a mechanical quality to it.

[Texas Deb]

"Terri did not want to live this way. Her parents want to continue the 15 years of torture. Her husband wants to relieve her suffering."

But according to Michael and his "experts," Terri cannot feel anything - so how is she being tortured? As I understand it, that is one of the symptoms of a PVS - that the patient feels nothing. They cannot have it both ways - if she is suffering and in pain, then she is not in a PVS, therefore, they have no legal basis to remove her feeding tube. If she is in a PVS, then she is not suffering.

The only ones being tortured are her family members.

[Texas Deb]

As I understand it, I believe the judge has given MS the right to cremate Terri, against the wishes of her family.

[sergeantdave]

I saw that.

It's good to know there are people in politics able to teach about life with a proverb.

[An Old Marine]

Terri did not want to live this way. Her parents want to continue the 15 years of torture. Her husband wants to relieve her suffering.

I might agree with you EXCEPT there is no hard evidence to support this. The argument is that the woman told her husband. This is however hearsay that is not admissible in any court in the land. Further there is every reason to believe that her husband's motivations are at the very least compromised.

Lastly even as one not particularly religious I deeply resent your generalization that non-religious people are more moral. Thats pure nonsense. Professing how much you "care" is not a substitute for action. This argument is always presented by the secular left whenever a moral question comes up. In this country private charities donate 24 times more money than the government does overseas and 3 times as much domestically. And of that figure a whooping 70% comes from religious and faith based related organizations.

Apparently you are one of those that equates saving the life of a murderer on death row with allowing a helpless woman die.

An interesting moral philosophy.

[Conservativegreatgrandma]

From now on, no sick, mentally retarded or troublesome person's life is safe. It will take a while to get around to all of us to kill us, but brother make no doubt about it, they are coming.

From now on, NO ONE'S life is safe. One would think that even those that want her dead would realize that this could eventually affect their own lives.

[cyn]

Yes, I do, from talking w/Terri's family.

The intent is not only to have her body cremated against the wishes of her family, but furthermore to scatter those ashes up in PA on some Schiavo family property, also (needless to say) in defiance of her family's wishes.

Supposedly, greer has already approved cremation & it is on a fast track to being done immediately after her death.

However, FL statutes are that any cremation MUST be run by the district's medical examiner office and be approved. This approval is given only after the ME office is satisfied that the death is not due to violence or suspicious circumstances, homicide, or suicide. The ME office is meant to cooperate with, but to be totally independent of, any law enforcement or hospitals or courts.

One might conclude that Michael's desire to insult and hurt Terri's family goes far beyond simply causing her death.

[NoControllingLegalAuthority]

Another lesson to parents: The wonderful child you nurtured, raised and loved can be killed by an adulterous spouse in Florida and the whole legal world will be on the side of the murderer.

Do not rejoice in the marriage of your child. You have potentially lost the ability to save the child's life to the whim of a spouse.

[Zivasmate]

"In fact, those of us who do not believe in the existence of a soul are far more protective of actual living humans. On issues from the death penalty to the killing of innocents in war, to the relief of suffering, the religious are often "anti-life."

I couldn't have said it better than you just did. Liberals cannot or will not distinguish the difference between good and evil, responsibility vs.irresponsibility, and criminals and victims. Thank you for articulating the liberal position so no further words need be wasted.

[cyn]

// Terri did not want to live this way. Her parents want to continue the 15 years of torture. Her husband wants to relieve her suffering.

That's just as valid a view as Podhoretz's. //

no, it actually is not. if it was michael would not have had to embargo information, including terri herself.

this is murder.

[swampfox98]

One would think that even those that want her dead would realize that this could eventually affect their own lives.

Most of the American people are incapable of adding two and two and getting four. So to do some really deep thinking, as one would need to do to see what is coming on America, they won't be smart enough. Just pass them another beer and a porno magazine and to heck with everything else.

[Texas Deb]

Sometimes it seems MS is doing all this JUST to hurt Terri's family - what a truly cruel and despicable man.

[goldstategop]

We all have a soul. I know the Left thinks committing murder will set us back a stinging and bitter defeat. If they think the death of Terri Schiavo is payback for them, they don't know what payback really is. And the bloodguilt is upon the heads of all those who ordered the deed, who stood by and those who did nothing.

(Denny Crane: "Sometimes you can only look for answers from God and failing that... and Fox News".)

[Sam Cree]

Those of you who wish to punish Florida for the actions of one Democrat, I sincerely hope you stay in your own sorry states.

Most of us in the state are "conservative" if that counts, though I gather from this morning's remarks that many of you don't care.

[Conservativegreatgrandma]

I saw the Senator Daniel Webster. I just sent an e-mail to some and described what I saw. It was compelling, and true.

Our pastor is so emotionally involved in this issue that last night at our Maundy Thurs. service he was praying for Terri but said later he couldn't say her name. He prayed for the person in our country that is surrounded by food and yet is being denied food. We knew what he meant. He says our Easter service will also have Terri in mind. Our whole SS class last Sunday was a discussion of Terri and these issues with heavy Bible study that these decisions are left to God, not man.

[exit82]

Well stated. The only extraneous word in your post is "seems".

[brazzaville]

Good morning.

The Nazis and Soviets took this view. The Dutch and Belgians are almost there and this case sends us down the slippery slope like nothing has since Roe v. Wade.

Michael Frazier

[mlc9852]

I have read that Michael already got an order from - you guessed it, Judge Greer - that says she is to be immediately cremated. Makes you wonder, doesn't it?

[Grampa Dave]

Soros's 45 million $ investment in "Death in America": Once again we see the work of George $oro$ in the Eugenics of America or as he has labeled it: "Project on Death In America".

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Open Society Institute Examines Impact of $45 Million Press Release OSI's Project on Death in America published a special report, Transforming the Culture of Dying, which reviews nine years and $45 million devoted to improving care available to patients and their families at all stages of serious illness. more Project on Death in America: January 2001–December 2003 Report of Activities This final three-year report describes the 2001–2003 grantmaking program of OSI's Project on Death in America.  more more publications

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