Schiavo 11th Circuit U.S. Court of Appeals Decision

U.S. Court of Appeals for the 11th Circuit ^ | 03/23/2005 | U.S. Court of Appeals for the 11th Circuit

[CyberAnt]

"the legislators intent was that Terri starve to death"

Where on earth did you get that conclusion from ..??

[AndrewC]

Nonsense.

That was what the new law was all about, as admitted by the 11th in its decision.

[happinesswithoutpeace]

"We lost this one."

And the winner is?

[A CA Guy]

The only people buying into those polls are the ones who don't know anything about the evidence that Terri wasn't totally brain dead.

I would love to know how the poll was asked?

#1 Do you think they should keep the brain dead woman alive?
or
#2 Do you think Terri, who has been shown to be responsive but crippled should be starved to death?

[HitmanLV]

Mr. Schiavio.

[Mad Mammoth]

So every judge at every level of this case was on the take or something?

That's not what I said. Pay attention.

And congress wasn't in on it? Neither was Gov Bush and the FL legislature for their attempts? They didn't follow the script, is that it?

Again, that is not what I said. You are attempting to construct straw men to knock down. Once again: pay attention.

A mentality that sees a fix when they lose and justice when they win is so.....democratic!

It doesn't take much to understand when the judicial process has been hijacked by those who have no interest in seeing justice done. Any casual review of what has happened in this case ought to demonstrate that, and time will prove that to be true, whether you wish to acknowledge that at this time or not.

Keep shadowboxing, son. We did what we could. We lost this one.

I'm not your son. And I just might be old enough to be your father.

[peyton randolph]

And the winner is?

Long-term it will be the beneficiaries of the yet-to-be-passed Terri's Law. Unfortunately, like Amber Alerts and Megan's Law, someone is murdered before the protection is put in place.

[El Oviedo]

I take exception to the Federal Courts that have taken over the cAse.

Have they really looked deep into the case and delved into what really is the situation? That Federal Judge in Florida, did he really look and read all the transcripts to make an honest decision. With the time he allocated, it is not possible for any one judge to really get acquainted to all the facts.

Then you have the 3 judge panel, did they do the same? What good is an appeals court if that court does not consider all the facts - and just limit themselves to perhaps what the trial court had summarized.

In my book that is not an appeals court. Maybe that's what our court system is all about just look and consider what they want to see.

I believe it is about time that the Senate exercises its "advice and consent" function which have been missing so far when regards to the judiciary. The constitution does not state that the advice and consent function should deal only with the executive branch.

Of course the liberals will complain bitterly, when the Senate exercises this function. There is a dying woman who deserves her day in court and that is not being provided.

Is there a lawyer in the house who can shed some clarification on this?

[peyton randolph]

The two errors that I see.

1. The federal district court judge did not conduct a de novo review of the case despite being required to do so by statute.

2. The 11th Circuit found that the district court judge did in fact conduct a de novo review. Once this determination was made, it was impossible to find that he had abused his discretion (the appellate standard of review).

[agrace]

While the district court conducted de novo review of plaintiffs’ claims

it DID??

[Nuzcruizer]

Re post 68;

Well said. But there are circumstances where the laws of the land can take away your life, liberty and happiness, such as the death penalty. In Terri's case however, her rights as a law abiding citzen of this nation have been clearly violated.

[HitmanLV]

I know you didn't say those things, I was just suggesting those as weak links. If the fix was truly in, why weren't those folks involved? Makes no sense.

I agree that this is a miscarriage of justice. That being said, I am mature enough to know that it isn't the first one, and it isn't the last.

Age before beauty, gramps... ;-)

[HiTech RedNeck]

the fdcj was required? or allowed? by the statute to do a de novo review.

[HiTech RedNeck]

And the winner (for the time being) is the devil and his demons. The worst human evil pales before their evil; the worst human tyrant is but their pawn.

[HitmanLV]

No argument from me, friend.

[Chieftain]

What happened to "rule of law" when storm troopers snatched Elian Gonzalez?

I will NEVER forget that day that Clinton/Reno/Castro sold out America and snatched Elian! I am truly saddened by Terri's case. May we remember her always as we take back the nation from judicial TYRANNY!!

[snowsislander]

It may be a system, but this is not a system of justice.

The dissenting judge's arguments are fine, and would have prevailed on any scale of reasonableness that I might use. But the pettifogging of the other two has now placed Mrs. Schiavo in extremis.

Having run out the clock, like others have observed, these federal judges are indeed playing out a Pontius Pilate role this Easter week. Although some of them appear to be even less willing to do right than that ancient Roman in Judea, I will hope that for all of their sakes that their supply of wash water is effectively unlimited.

[Nuzcruizer]

"Long-term it will be the beneficiaries of the yet-to-be-passed Terri's Law. Unfortunately, like Amber Alerts and Megan's Law, someone is murdered before the protection is put in place."

It doesn't have to be so.

A person on death row is allowed to live while they exhaust every single avenue of law to over turn their conviction. I've never seen anyone (on death row) being put to death, and their case continuing on after the fact.

Why is Terri being denied this? The President himself should take guardianship of Terri and protect her life while Her case is heard/exhausted in every court. I just can't understand why anyone, her parents, can't be given guardianship if they are willing to assume responsibility for her care.

It's all about the money, America's God.

[Mad Mammoth]

I know you didn't say those things, I was just suggesting those as weak links. If the fix was truly in, why weren't those folks involved? Makes no sense.

OK, I understand what you're saying and here is why ALL of the people didn't have to be in on the 'fix':

First of all, the corruption of the judicial process began (naturally) at the bottom, where Michael Schiavo and his attorney George Felos conspired to deprive Terri Schiavo of her civil rights. It is urgent (so far as Michael Schiavo is concerned) to be sure Terri does not survive long enough to perhaps be rehabilitated to the point where she might be able to communicate more about what really happened to her in her 'accident' in 1990. It is also vital that Terri's body be immediately cremated in order to prevent any forensic review post-mortem. Judge Greer has already ruled in favor of that. The villains for the most part in this sad episode are the judges up and down the food chain, i.e., while not ALL judges are necessarily in on the 'fix', they are parties to the abuse of the judicial system by denying Terri Schiavo her civil rights which are guaranteed under the Constitution. Because Judge Greer has consistently ruled in favor of Michael Schiavo, there has been great reluctance on the part of any judge to issue an order which would be seen as a rebuke of Greer's handling of the case. Make NO mistake: every judge, when they contemplate their decisions, consider that IF they in effect rebuke a fellow jurist, that same standard MAY one day be used on THEM. This is not unlike the reason that tarantulas mostly tolerate the presence of other tarantulas, even tho they all could inflict nasty bites on each other. Judges, like tarantulas, seldom provoke each other because they know instinctively (and from their own experiences) that they exericse vast power, over and above the executive or legislative branches, law enforcement agencies, let alone We The Peasants.

What I'm saying is that there was no NEED for each and every person to be in on the initial 'fix', all that was needed was for the abuse of the process to be *started* (with Schiavo, Felos and Greer), and what was originally a fair and balanced judicial system became immensely UNfair and UNbalanced as the corruption from the bottom of the chain reverberated all the way up the ladder. No corrective action was taken within the judicial system because to do so would cause even greater reverberations, in other words, nobody wanted to rock the boat in the interest of self-preservation of those highly coveted black robes.

I agree that this is a miscarriage of justice. That being said, I am mature enough to know that it isn't the first one, and it isn't the last.

Oh I agree with you that this isn't the first one, but I submit that this current travesty just might be the straw that broke the camel's back. There will be repercussions, and they will be severe, inexplicable, and before it is all over, whatever is left of America will be hiding under their beds in total abject horror at what is coming down the pike.

Believe that.

Age before beauty, gramps... ;-)

You're more than welcome to it. ;)

[Knitting A Conundrum]

This miscarriage of justice started with three things: A state law that allows food and water to be considered extraordinary care that can be refused, a state law that allowa hearsay to take the place of a written living will, and a husband who was willing to use both pieces of law.

Once Judge Greer ruled that under Florida law, Terri Schiavo wanted to die if she became incapacitated, her death warrrant was sealed.

Perfectly legal, if injust. Very similar to some Nazi legislation that allowed mercy killing of the mentally ill and handicapped.

What the courts have done was to re-emphasize that what the courts did was LEGAL. Not right, nor just, nor fair.

There is true justice, and there is the legal system. Often the legal system is only an approximation of justice.

This is one of those cases.

It breaks my heart.