Posted on 03/22/2005 5:58:03 AM PST by Dr. Marten
CLEARWATER - Pinellas-Pasco Circuit Judge George Greer left his church last week after the pastor wrote him a letter suggesting "it might be easier for all of us" if he leave.
Greer, whose orders on the Terri Schiavo case have brought him criticism, is a Southern Baptist who attended Calvary Baptist Church in Clearwater.
Though he had other unrelated problems with the church, Greer's attendance faltered after a Baptist publication the church supported criticized his decisions in the Schiavo case. He stopped his donations to the church, but remained a member. He briefly discussed his relationship with the church in a March 6 St. Petersburg Times article.
Four days later, Calvary Pastor William Rice wrote Greer a letter: "I am not asking you to do this, but since you have taken the initiative of withdrawal, and since your connection with Calvary continues to be a point of concern, it would seem the logical and, I would say, biblical course."
Rice's letter became public when he sent a copy to the Clearwater courthouse. Rice also said the church supports keeping Schiavo alive, though he said he was "truly saddened and embarrassed by the level of harassment and vitriolic nature of so many comments that purportedly come from people of faith."
Rice, who has been pastor at the church for five months, added: "But you must know that in all likelihood it is this case which will define your career and this case that you will remember in the waning days of life. I hope you can find a way to side with the angels and become an answer to the prayers of thousands."
Greer responded with a letter severing his relationship with the church.
"The separation occured because he failed to accept church discipline and then held the church up to ridicule by announcing to the world he was withholding his tithe and no longer attending."
I agree with your assesment. He publically brought shame on the church and essentially severed his own membership. The church didn't, but could have severed his membership. Unfortunately, there are plenty of quasi Southern Baptist churches out there (known as the Cooperative Baptist Fellowship) that would probably take this fellow in with gladness. If one does, that could have reprocussions throughout the entire Southern Baptist Convention. The SBC may finally split in fact, whereas it has been split for sometime between Conservatives and "Moderates"(liberals that won't admit it).
My friend VRWCmember posted it this way on another thread.
"We had a guy call in to our local talk radio show last night who tried to claim that there is no constitutional right to life. He almost had a point if you don't bother to think. While the constitution does not contain the phrase "right to life" it guarantees certain liberties. Furthermore, the Declaration of Independence states that it is self-evident that the Creator endowed upon all men certain unalienable rights (which means the cannot be denied whether they are spelled out in the Constitution or not), i.e. Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness.
The Fifth amendment states nobody can be deprived of Life, liberty, or property without the due process of law. While some would argue that Terri Schiavo has had due process of law, until she has been represented by an ad litum attorney that puts her interests first rather than simply being represented by her "husband's" attorney who is acting solely in the interest of her "husband", then she has not really had due process of law.
The Fourteenth amendment states that no state can deprive any citizen of life, liberty, or property, nor pass any law which abridges a person's privileges or immunities as a citizen. When the state courts have ruled that a person can be killed, but have not allowed that person the due process that has been denied to Terri, then the Fourteenth amendment kicks in and it is a federal concern rather than a states' rights issue.
(I'm not a lawyer, but I sometimes play one on Free Republic.)"
"Doesn't even remotely sound Christian to me especially not Southern Baptist."
Amen Brother!
***So you're saying the guy must really be Satan incarnate?***
Good Lord! I've read a couple of your hysterical posts over the last few days and all I can respond to this one to me answering my mild statement (which, btw, wasn't even addressed to you) is: "A good Anger Management course and Therapy can be your friends." You need to get a grip.
You know what who was saying?
Why didn't the pastor do this a lot earlier?
-.- . . .--. .. -. --. / .... . .-. / .- .-.. .. ...- . / .. ... / - --- .-. - ..- .-. .
God will judge Greer, fairly as Greer has judged others. Just think of the teachings about what you have done to the least of these brethren you have done to me. The Baptist churches discipline of cutting off fellowship is a taste of what could come. He should heed and repent. I wouldn't give a plug nickel to be in Greer's shoes. He may very well get a supoena from the Lord soon to stand before the throne and give account to what he has done.
Terri.
See my tagline
I've attended two churches where church discipline was enacted.
The one, 1981 or 2 ... a man that believed he had been called to the pastorate had witheld his tithe for about a year before it became obvious it was his witholding that produced the drop in finances.
His reasoning was that he was waiting for God to show him the church he was to pastor and that he would need that money to 'start' the church.
Our pastor's efforts to show, biblically, that while attending the local church his tithe belonged there came to naught.
The predicament was brought before the deacons, (He, BTW, was one .. )and a couple of men went to talk to him with our pastor and finally the situatuion was brought before the church.
I was a new Christian at the time, so I wasn't all that knowledgeable about what was going on at the time.
I believe he was voted out of the membership ... but I'm not really sure ... he might have just left.
The second was a man in the church I now attend.
He had been a mambar for some years and utilised a thirteen year old girl, also from our church, to baby sit.
When the girl was 14, he had sufficiently 'wooed' this young girl (He, BTW was married) into having sex .
The parents found out and called the pastor.
(The mother and the man's wife were good friends .. the wife had a suspicion, but no evidence ... the wife was ultimately very helpful in bringing this situation to a close).
Pastor went to the man to ask him to repent and approach the father of the girl for forgiveness, he refused.
A couple of deacons went and tried ... refused.
The man was caught by the father late at night outside the girls' window and he beat him with a ball bat, called pastor, the cops and was charged.
Before the legal system got really going, the man was invited to come before the congregation (everyone knew by this time) and he refused.
He was removed from membership, was convicted in court and is serving time right now.
Why so nasty, did you learn that in church too?
That is the proper way to administer it. Biblical and fair with more than one chance to repent.
When did she say that?
I agree with a lot of your post but there is also good things going on as well. There is a significant part of the Church that needs a wake up call.
(Shouldnt the church be there for you in your darkest hour? What a shame that these "Christians" missed out on a real opportunity to show Jesus' love.)
The Church should be there for you if you ask for forgiveness. Judge Greer still thinks that what he did is good and correct. He obviously is rebelling against the teachings of the Church. Why should the Church accept to be used for political reasons when he obviously doesn't believe what it teaches? It's similar to those so called "Catholic" Democrats who are for no limits on abortions. They are just using the term "Catholic" for political purposes. Their actions say they don't believe in the teachings of the Church. Therefore the Church shouldn't feel shame in kicking them out.
I feel blessed to belong to a church and denomination that would not hesitate to go throught the process of Church discipline in a biblical manner.
Yup - - they ran a number of articles in the church newspaper that reminded him - and others - that killing handicaped people is not the Christian way. It's pre-christian, pagan. Apparently he didn't agree. Fine, then he shouldn't shame their congregation by darkening the door.
I wish I knew more about Florida law. In Alabama Michael lost all spousal rights including guardianship when we decided to live with another woman.
It is a biblical mandate for church discipline. It is a process which is sounds like his church followed. Your darkest hour is of your own making if it is because you are willingly and rebelliosly sinning. There is no forgiveness for that sin until there is a time that you repent of it. In this case, the church then is following the commands and example of our God Jesus Christ.
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