Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Humvee Crashes Perplex Army
USA Today via Yahoo News ^ | 3-18-2005 | Gregg Zoroya

Posted on 03/18/2005 7:26:14 AM PST by Pendragon_6

The Army is baffled by a recent spate of vehicle accidents in Iraq - many of them rollovers involving armored Humvees - that have claimed more than a dozen lives this year.

One key concern: Soldiers lack the skills to handle the heavier Humvees and are losing control as they speed through ambush areas before insurgents detonate roadside bombs.

"An individual feels that if he goes faster he can avoid that threat," says Lt. Col. Michael Tarutani, an Army official tracking the accidents. "But now he's exceeded, first, maybe his capabilities, and then maybe the speed for those conditions."

In the past four full months, the numbers of serious vehicle accidents and fatalities in Iraq have more than doubled from the previous four months, records provided by the Army show. In the first 10 weeks of this year, 14 soldiers were killed in accidents involving Humvees or trucks. All but one died in rollovers. If that rate continues, the number of soldiers killed in such accidents this year would be almost double the 39 soldiers killed in 2004. Detailed records involving Marines were not available.

The Army is trying to determine whether the dramatic increase in the number of Humvees in use in Iraq - or an increase in the amount of miles they are being driven - might explain the higher number of accidents. It also is questioning whether the handling and center of gravity in Humvees may have been altered by armor plating bolted on in Iraq or shields added around gun turrets.

Continued


TOPICS: War on Terror
KEYWORDS: humvee; iraq; uparmoredhumvee; wheeledarmor
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-51 next last
To: bmwcyle

No beer...


21 posted on 03/18/2005 7:48:52 AM PST by null and void (A 35 mm and a .45 cal. Hard combo to beat...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: stuartcr
Probably has a lot to do with driving when you are really scared...

Either this is just a media scare or it has something to do with a change to the vehicle's stability involving the modifications.

I just watched a History Channel program on the Jeep. They tried to modify the Jeep replacing the solid axles, in the late '50s, I think. They ended up with a situation where if the Jeep became even the slightest bit airborne (hit a bump), the wheels would curl toward the center of the vehicle. If you landed even the slightest bit cockeyed, voila! - even the most experienced drivers would roll over.

Took a few deaths for them to figure it out.

22 posted on 03/18/2005 7:50:54 AM PST by an amused spectator (If Social Security isn't broken, then cut me a check for the cash I have into it.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: null and void

Only what fit in the trunk.


23 posted on 03/18/2005 7:51:11 AM PST by bmwcyle (Washington DC RINO Hunting Guide)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: Pendragon_6

"If you raise the center of gravity by mounting armor plating up high, it makes a vehicle prone to rollovers at speeds over 35 mph."

It most Certainly does.


24 posted on 03/18/2005 7:52:13 AM PST by roaddog727 (The marginal propensity to save is 1 minus the marginal propensity to consume.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: Pendragon_6

My guess is that as the war dies down, battle hardened 19 year olds have a lot more time to play with these “indestructible” toys.


25 posted on 03/18/2005 7:52:30 AM PST by elfman2
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: roaddog727

It seems that by inserting a blank as compensating weight it would help in realigning the center of gravity. Any reduction in acceleration, top speed, or storage/passenger capacity would likely be an acceptable trade off. Sounds like these vehicles were 'redesigned' in the field and need some more tweaking.

Also, fear leads to over-correction in steering. Happens all the time around here stateside. Someone (usually a young driver) comes upon some debris on the interstate (usually a re-tread from a semi tire that they could drive over anyway) and they drastically yank the wheel one way, then back the other way and there you have it - roll over w/ tragic deaths.


26 posted on 03/18/2005 7:53:44 AM PST by Sax
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: Pendragon_6
It also is questioning whether the handling and center of gravity in Humvees may have been altered by armor plating bolted on in Iraq or shields added around gun turrets.

Duh! Ya think?

You cannot add thousands of pounds of armor plate to the upper surfaces of any vehicle without effecting the handling characteristics. The Humvee is s fine vehicle, as designed, but it is not a Stryker. Dressing them up like Strykers is going to increase the rate of rollovers.

Hopefully the lives saved by the armor will more than make up for the accidental deaths. The Army needs to train the drivers that these up-armored Humvees are not the same animal they trained on back in the States.

27 posted on 03/18/2005 7:54:28 AM PST by gridlock (ELIMINATE PERVERSE INCENTIVES)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Pendragon_6

No brainer. Take a vehicle with relitively low CG, bolt on 4500 pounds of armour plate above its CG and you get an underpowered overweight POS that rolls over if you pass gas next to it.


Next question?


28 posted on 03/18/2005 8:05:04 AM PST by taxed2death (A few billion here, a few trillion there...we're all friends right?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Pendragon_6
The regular M998 HMMWV weighs in at 5,600 lbs without ammo, armament, etc.

The up-armored HMMWV weighs just over 10,000 lbs without ammo, armament, etc.

Both have four tires, either bias or radial.

Nah, that wouldn't have a thing to do with the additional accidnets. </sarcasm>

29 posted on 03/18/2005 8:09:09 AM PST by Arrowhead1952 (TV News and the MSM - - - ROTFLMAO)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Pendragon_6

The media attacks against the Pentagon and Rumsfield are directly responsible for these deaths. If it wasn't for their repeated screams for Armor, the soldiers wouldn't be driving vehicles they are not familiar with!


30 posted on 03/18/2005 8:16:40 AM PST by CSM
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: bmwcyle

They are diesels.


31 posted on 03/18/2005 8:20:51 AM PST by KingofQue
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: KingofQue

Ok they still go fairly fast over ruff roads.


32 posted on 03/18/2005 8:22:19 AM PST by bmwcyle (Washington DC RINO Hunting Guide)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: an amused spectator

" They tried to modify the Jeep replacing the solid axles, in the late '50s, I think. They ended up with a situation where if the Jeep became even the slightest bit airborne (hit a bump), the wheels would curl toward the center of the vehicle. If you landed even the slightest bit cockeyed, voila! - even the most experienced drivers would roll over."

That's when the M-38A1 Jeep was replaced by the M-151 which was a totally different vehicle. The M-151 had unit-body construction and, as you noted, had independent rear suspension that allowed the rear wheels to tuck under during heavy braking and when turning. It was particulary tricky when you got into a turn at excessive speed and tried to brake in the turn. I was fortunate to have covered several thousand miles in an M-151 without incident - it was a great little vehicle.


33 posted on 03/18/2005 8:28:00 AM PST by Ben Hecks
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: Pendragon_6

If surrounding air bags and the panic button on the new civilian hummers would be added onto all hummers in Iraq, maybe it would have contributed to less casualties.


34 posted on 03/18/2005 8:44:51 AM PST by Wiz
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Pendragon_6

A key missing element leaves this issue impossible to analyze; what are the topographies of the accident locations?


35 posted on 03/18/2005 8:56:34 AM PST by Old Professer (A man's conscience is like his garden, it is his and his alone to tend.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Old Professer
What are the topographies of the drivers? In 'Nam we lost more people to vehicle accidents than to enemy fire ... a fact few people want to admit. And in virtually all of those vehicle fatalities, alcohol was the significant factor.

We need a lot more information about what is happening in Iraq before we can jump to conclusions. As with 'Nam, are there factors being withheld for PR reasons? Or more likely, are the factors ignored because people in the government tend to have a blind spot and not consider unintended consequences.

Yes, the same government that would muck up a socialized health care system can muck up a military operation also.

36 posted on 03/18/2005 10:22:07 AM PST by NormalGuy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: NormalGuy

Topography, the inclines, valleys, lumps, bumps in the road.


37 posted on 03/18/2005 10:26:00 AM PST by Old Professer (A man's conscience is like his garden, it is his and his alone to tend.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: Smokin' Joe

They do.


38 posted on 03/18/2005 10:45:18 AM PST by RedlegCPT (Artillery lends dignity to what would otherwise be a vulgar brawl)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: Pendragon_6
Fix the Aging Humvee

I used to get into lots of discussions about this. Check out the keywords if you're interested.

39 posted on 03/18/2005 12:32:05 PM PST by Cannoneer No. 4 (Kandahar Airfield -- “We’re not on the edge of the world, but we can see it from here")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

The death wagons of Iraq
40 posted on 03/18/2005 12:39:51 PM PST by Cannoneer No. 4 (Kandahar Airfield -- “We’re not on the edge of the world, but we can see it from here")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-51 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson