$3.3 million in suspect cash is seized

St. Louis Post-Dispatch ^ | March 16, 2005 | Paul Hampel

[Graybeard58]

A Pontoon Beach police officer acting on a hunch searched a tractor-trailer at a truck stop and discovered almost $3.3 million in suspected drug money, one of the largest cash seizures in the area's history.

The money, confiscated Friday, was mostly in $20 bills and took a team of 10 officers almost 12 hours to count, said Pontoon Beach Police Chief Charles Luehmann.

snip

"We catch people with anywhere from $5,000 or $6,000 all the way up to a half million usually," said St. Louis police spokesman Sgt. Sam Dotson. Almost "$3.3 million, I'd say that's a huge find for Pontoon Beach."

snip

If the driver can't provide proof he obtained the money legally, federal law requires that it be divided between Pontoon Beach police and federal agencies.

[af_vet_1981]

They are talking about seizing amounts as low as $5,000 or $6,000

And yet the story you that has disturbed you is talking about the seizure of $3.3 million, mostly in $20 bills.

[Graybeard58]

Yes, I read the Digest article about the American citizen, business owner who was on his way to Mexico to buy his father a tractor with $60,000 in cash. Stopped in the U.S. his money was seized and he had to spend $20,000 on lawyers and court costs to prove it was his.

[hoosiermama]

If it was drug money, someone will be finding his body soon.

[Graybeard58]

It's the concept of presumed innocence that's being ignored that "bothers" me.

[William Tell]

LightCrusader said: "If you are engaging in suspicious activity then there may be a problem for you. Otherwise, don't worry about it. The police aren't looking for you."

Don't criminals know this? Wouldn't it be suspicious, then, if someone appeared to be purposely NOT acting suspicious? Isn't "suspicion" just a way of describing a situation where there is NO probable cause?

How would you characterize the level of suspicion required to search you, your family, your vehicle, or your home? Since "suspicion" is not a legal term, I don't understand what you are advocating.

What level of cash is not suspicious? When they passed the law requiring reports from banks, I believe it was $10,000. Doesn't that immediately make $9999 a suspicious amount?

What financial transactions can be afforded the presumption of innocence using your standard?

[Graybeard58]

Isn't "suspicion" just a way of describing a situation where there is NO probable cause?

That is excatly right. "Suspicion" is highly subjective.

When my son was 17-20 years old there was a period when he was stopped and had his car searched on an almost daily basis. Nothing illegal was ever found.

I went to the cheif and did a little figurative desk pounding and he explained to me that it was because of my boys age. He also told me that his own son was frequently stopped and searched.

When I let him know I would start documenting these "searches" and would talk to an attorney they mysteriously stopped.

Profiling? Most likely, but being 17 years old doesn't make a kid a drug user and it's harrassment no matter what else it is called.

[Drammach]

"There is nothing suspicious here.."
"This is not the money you are looking for"..
"You should wave us on, and call up the next truck"..

"Thank You very much, officer.."

[Drammach]

This is a very bad law.

Yes it is..

And I would like to explain that to some of the ahhh..
"Indoctrinated" deniers..

But I have been arguing semantics and truth with another group of .... misanthropes? in another thread all day..

So I'm not going to express any opinion on this one..
Not today..

Although, if someone wanted to compare these seizures to the way seizure of private property for personal gain drove the Spanish Inquisition, well....
I would have to agree on that point..

But I won't..

[JSteff]

"It lowers our tax burden and takes the money out of the hands of murderers and thieves. "

You made the statement and so I invoke the FR right of "Prove it." Show me a government (fed or local) statistic of taxes being reduced by drug forfeitures.

Seemingly every time they ask for more tax money they use cases like this to prove why they need MORE tax money... and why the last batch of tax money was so well spent.

Taxes NEVER get lowered...it is the business the government (all) is in. No taxes, no business.

[phoenix0468]

well I knew that would come back to bite me. I honestly couldn't provide you with any data to prove that. I made an assumption as all humans are prone to do from time to time. So, I will appologize for making an assumption and allow you your correction.

Thanks.

[JSteff]

IIRC the IRS actually has a video for car dealerships, real estate firms, etc showing how and who to report to the government, large sums of money, especially cash, used in transactions.

They give contact numbers and the form id's to make it easy to do so. They also include in the video a lightly veiled threat if one does NOT REPORT the cash that one could be held as a criminal too.

Fines, threats, jail all used to scare the business employees.

[phoenix0468]

That usually only applies after you have been busted and are in court facing the charges. A police officer, as far as I know, does not have the responsibility to presume you are innocent if you are breaking the law (either a felony or misdemeanor). This man was breaking the law by blocking traffic and therefore was under a presumption of guilt by the officer. In that case they can search whatever they want. You are presumed innocent until 1) you break the law or give reason for suspicion and 2) by a jury in your trial after you have been charged.

[JSteff]

NP

[Old Professer]

If those guys confiscate my $36.18 I'll be dead broke.

[Rebelbase]

20 years ago a guy with Texas tags on his car came in an wrote and offer on the first 100 acres or rural property a guy in my office showed him.

He came back the next day with with a garbage bag with $80,000 in $5's-$10's-$20's in to put in escrow.

Took 3 hours to count it all.

[Old Professer]

Back in 1989 I was saving cash and carried it on my person as we were planning on moving into a house and needed 1st, last, security and utility deposits; as I moved in, I peeled off $2,600 for the landlord, paid a few hundred more for utilities and purchased a bit more than $1,110 of furniture, an air compressor and cleaning and painting supplies.

When I moved to Nashville, I left California with over $7,000 in cash so I wouldn't have to deal with credit cards, checks, etc.

Normally, I have less than $100 unless I am planning a purchase.

[TUX]

The big problem for the dealers is laundering the cash receipts. Car Dealers, Furniture Stores, and many mom and pop businesses are more than willing to factor the cash for 10-20 percent. Good church going folks are running the cash through legit businesses.

Wrote programs to monitor these cash deposits through banks. Out of range deposits are reported to authorities. The DEA IRS know these folks and monitors them carefully.

Probably a delivery to several laundering businesses. Three and a half million in small bills is a truck load of cash.

[TKDietz]

"'It lowers our tax burden and takes the money out of the hands of murderers and thieves.'"

"You made the statement and so I invoke the FR right of "Prove it." Show me a government (fed or local) statistic of taxes being reduced by drug forfeitures."

I had to laugh when I saw that too. I'm in an area where they seize an awful lot of money. Our small town prosecutors office has even hired a part time attorney at the to do pretty much nothing but asset forfeitures. They blow that money like crazy. All of the prosecutors and a bunch of the guys in local law enforcement keep seized cars as "company cars." It pays for things like memberships to the gym for all of the prosecutors, their cell phones and lavish continuing legal education trips. They all have plush offices with cable TV. They are always buying some new fancy gadgetry like the laptops they all have in addition to their desktops, some giant $30,000 "smart screen" thing they bought a few months ago that every once in a while they'll lug into the courtroom for a trial but mostly they just watch ball games on it back in the office. The last thing they just bought were fancy bullet proof vests for all the attorneys even though they never go anywhere they might need them, just whatever crap they might think of that they can somehow or another claim is for "prosecutorial purposes," mostly they just blow it. The county still provides them a huge budget, and they have a nice slush fund to dip into any time they need it on top of that. The drug fund money doesn't pay any salaries but they figure out ways to provide special benefits with it and sometimes even bonuses.

They'll take anything from the $10 someone might have in his pocket when he gets busted for some minor offense on up to the huge loads of cash they pull from the highway. It gets split between the law enforcement agencies involved on the busts and the prosecutors. A lot of times there doesn't even seem to be any record of the forfeitures of smaller amounts of cash the cops take from people. I don't doubt some of the many stories I hear about officers pocketing the money.

Asset forfeiture is a racket. If they are going to do it, at least the lions share of it should go to the state and the county general fund, or in the case of money split with the feds it should come in as general revenue for the federal government. Law enforcement and prosecutors should get their budgets like other county and state (or federal) agencies. As it is at least in my state there is virtually no oversight as to how this money is spent and most of it is just blown on silly stuff or to enrich the lives of those doing the taking.

[verity]

How do you stuff $3.3M in your wallet?