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Ebbers guilty - Ex-WorldCom chairman guilty on all nine counts in massive accounting fraud.
CNN ^ | 3/15/2005 | NA

Posted on 03/15/2005 9:31:26 AM PST by Daus

NEW YORK (CNN/Money) - Bernard Ebbers, the former CEO of WorldCom, was found guilty Tuesday for his role in the mammoth accounting scandal that brought the company down two and half years ago.

A federal jury in New York, on its eighth day of deliberations, convicted Ebbers on all nine counts that he helped mastermind a $11 billion accounting fraud at WorldCom, now known as MCI.

(Excerpt) Read more at money.cnn.com ...


TOPICS: Breaking News; Crime/Corruption; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: corruption; ebbers; worldcom
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To: Aquinasfan

Exactly. The scary thing is if the jury made this decision based on the star witness/cocaine addict CFO's testimony. He had already been found guilty and was no doubt told that his sentence would be reduced if he testified against Ebbers and helped reel in the Big Fish......I just hope the jury was basing their decision on hard evidence and not the testimony of this jack-ass.


121 posted on 03/15/2005 2:52:24 PM PST by tilapia
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To: Smogger
He'll do less time then someone found in posession of $250 worth of crack.

Hmmmmm, I wouldn't know the crime time for crack...you??? LOL ;)

122 posted on 03/15/2005 2:55:24 PM PST by CitizenM (An excuse is worse and more terrible than a lie, for an excuse is a lie guarded. Pope John Paul II)
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To: Daus
I'll take that bet. These are Federal charges. :)

Rather then converting grams to dollars. Let's just say 5 grams of crack cocaine. Maybe $500 if we use the White House Office of Drug Control Policy's numbers from 2003 (though my estimate of $50 a gram is probably much more likely as prices have been dropping steadily for a decade.)

Posession of 5 grams of crack cocaine will result in a 5 year Federally mandated minimum sentance. I bet you Ebbers is sentanced for no more then 5 years in prison for 11 billion in fraud. He may get a few more years than that, but I hope you see my point.

123 posted on 03/15/2005 2:57:31 PM PST by Smogger
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To: Smogger

I see your point, but I still would take the bet. Bernie, for all those counts, is going to do real time. No parole in the Federal system, right?


124 posted on 03/15/2005 3:01:37 PM PST by Daus
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To: Daus

I believe there is parole. I don't think there is any time off for good behavior or whatever (ie. you can't wrap up a 5 year sentance in 3 years), but you could maybe be paroled after say 4.


125 posted on 03/15/2005 3:10:52 PM PST by Smogger
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To: colorado tanker

Thanks for the little extra insight.

Its the little things like that critical moment, when the bad guys know that even the best lawyers money can buy can't save them.


126 posted on 03/15/2005 3:31:45 PM PST by Grampa Dave (The MSM has been a WMD, Weapon of Mass Disinformation for the Rats for at least 4 decades.)
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To: Liz

One can dream of $inator Hildebea$T, the Clintoon and Bernie being cell mates and cleaning up elephant dung at the local zoo for punishment.


127 posted on 03/15/2005 3:32:43 PM PST by Grampa Dave (The MSM has been a WMD, Weapon of Mass Disinformation for the Rats for at least 4 decades.)
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To: Daus

I blame Bush!


128 posted on 03/15/2005 3:48:57 PM PST by LowInMo ("The tree of liberty must occasionally be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots.")
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To: Dog Gone; Almondjoy

Thank you for confirming (as you often do) my take on an issue. This Enron case is incredibly complex, and the "creative bookkeeping" done by the CFO and his cronies was hugely deceptive and nearly impossible to follow. As far as whether Lay was that deeply involved, folks more studied about this than I will have to judge - and I believe it is not so clear. Skilling, though, was right there on the spot with Fastow, and I must admit prejudice against him, though I could be persuaded differently.

This is going to be an interesting trial, and I wish that I were able to be on the jury and hear the whole of the case.


129 posted on 03/15/2005 4:21:58 PM PST by AFPhys ((.Praying for President Bush, our troops, their families, and all my American neighbors..))
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To: Odyssey-x

Microsoft does not exactly go down as a government victory. And Martha Stewart was a government loss on Securities Law, and shameful to boot. All it accomplished is that people under investigation will never talk to prosecutors.

Very glad about Ebbers though.


130 posted on 03/15/2005 4:29:21 PM PST by dervish (Nihilism is dead)
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To: Odyssey-x

Microsoft does not exactly go down as a government victory. And Martha Stewart was a government loss on Securities Law, and shameful to boot. All it accomplished is that people under investigation will never talk to prosecutors.

Very glad about Ebbers though.


131 posted on 03/15/2005 4:29:22 PM PST by dervish (Nihilism is dead)
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To: AFPhys

amen. This thread is a good illustration of why our founding founders set up a representative republic instead of pure democracy and mob rule.


132 posted on 03/15/2005 4:34:00 PM PST by plain talk
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To: Beelzebubba

I disagree.

Milken was guilty of true insider trading and numerous other securities crimes. The victim was the integrity of the market for all investors, not just the ones in the know. Also the victims were the ones who contemporaneously purchased or sold without the information to which he was privy as a classic undeniable insider.

In contrast Martha Stewart was not an insider in any way.

To argue that Milken was innovative and also developed "junk bonds" which were useful does not change what he did wrong. Had he played by the rules, then yes he would be praiseworthy, but he did not.


133 posted on 03/15/2005 4:46:04 PM PST by dervish (Nihilism is dead)
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To: Trajan88

agree. Winick was involved with Milken in the 1980's and should have been barred altogether from his position. Had justice been done in the 80's Global crossing may not have ocurred.


134 posted on 03/15/2005 4:48:17 PM PST by dervish (Nihilism is dead)
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To: tilapia
I just hope the jury was basing their decision on hard evidence and not the testimony of this jack-ass

My understanding is that there was no hard evidence, and that the whole case rested on the words of the Bernie vs. the CFO.

So Bernie says, "I was focused on strategy. I relied on the CFO to handle the accounting. I had no idea that he was cooking the books".

The CFO says, "Sure I cooked the books. Sure I committed fraud to increase my own personal wealth. Sure I made a deal with the prosecutor to reduce my sentence in exchange for testimony against Bernie. So, trust me, I told Bernie I was going to cook the books. I don't have any documents or emails to back it up, but trust me."

Hopefully, there was something more than that, but I bet it's tough to find a jury that truly understands complex business issues. I don't know if Bernie is a crook or not, but I'd have trouble with him being convicted strictly on the the testimony of an admitted felon who made a deal with the prosecutors.

From my experience, I've seen lots of CEOs who are not involved in the minute details of their businesses. To run a company the size of Worldcom or Enron, you'd have no way to stay on top of everything. Of course, $11B seems like a big enough number for him to be aware of, so who knows.

By the way, I lost about $25K on Worldcom stock, so I'd be happy with the conviction if I thought it was correct.

135 posted on 03/15/2005 4:49:11 PM PST by rocklobster11
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To: Grampa Dave

Man, that is a wonderful dream....if only (sigh).


136 posted on 03/15/2005 4:49:50 PM PST by Liz ("There is no safety for honest men except by believing all possible evil of evil men." Edmund Burke)
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To: dervish
The big news with Milken is that Rudy creatively decided to threaten the accused with RICO laws intended for organized crime.

For an objective summary that does not seek to make Milken look good, but which can lead you to wonder why other than Rudy's political career did Milken do time, check this out:

http://www.capitalcentury.com/1988.html

Ask yourself if Boesky, in order to avoid prison, might have said some things about Milken that were not entirely true.

For a different perspective, google "milken railroaded" or just check out this thread:
http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3a3292587431.htm
137 posted on 03/15/2005 5:14:56 PM PST by Atlas Sneezed (Your FRiendly FReeper Patent Attorney)
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To: Beelzebubba

There was plenty of other evidence against Milken besides Ivan Boesky. The worst of it were Chinese Wall violations.

As to whether RICO should have been used, that is a different argument. But RICO is used now for everything.

Did you know that Gary Winik of Global crossing worked with Milken?


138 posted on 03/15/2005 5:23:08 PM PST by dervish (Nihilism is dead)
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To: AFPhys
It would be fun to be on the jury. I live right around the corner from the Ken Lay YMCA facility, although they did change the sign to make his name nearly invisible.

However, I expect the trial to probably take at least four months, which makes it hard for any juror with a job to be seated. It involves offshore banking schemes, hedges and swaps, creative accounting, and outright deception. The prosecution is going to have a tough time explaining it all to anyone who doesn't have a finance degree.

Normally, I'm immune from jury duty in Houston because I live outside the city and county. But this is federal court, so I think I'm in the potential pool. Not sure about that, but there's no reason federal court would be tied to county lines.

139 posted on 03/15/2005 5:46:02 PM PST by Dog Gone
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To: Southack

The gang at Quest is next.


140 posted on 03/15/2005 6:00:35 PM PST by oceanview
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