Posted on 03/09/2005 9:47:25 AM PST by qam1
NEW YORK – They've been part of the American "uniform" for years, worn to casual restaurants, house parties, and some workplaces.
But as jeans become more expensive, they are also becoming more ubiquitous, showing up everywhere from Midwestern churches to Broadway shows. Nothing is off limits, it seems. Or is it? Among those who buy high-priced, designer denim or who simply don jeans frequently - there's debate about where it's appropriate to wear them.
The tug of war over jeans etiquette is particularly prevalent in New York City. Here, people tend to be more creative about their appearance, and are often more demanding about how fashion-conscious people should look, says Dannielle Romano, editor at large for DailyCandy.com, a fashion and trends website.
Many 20- and 30-somethings here have theater backgrounds, for example, and often say it's inappropriate to wear jeans to theater and other cultural performances out of respect for the performers and the surroundings (even though the venues themselves have no official dress codes).
"I am all in favor of the current denim revolution that we are having, but I do feel that there are times when jeans should be left at home," says Lisa Kerson, a jewelry designer in her early 30s, whose parents insisted that she look nice when going to a play or traveling on a plane. "I still get bothered when I see people wearing jeans to the theater, ballet, opera, etc.," she says in an e-mail.
Melissa Popiel also prefers not to see denim at the theater, or at an engagement party. To her, jeans are OK for a house party or a casual dinner, but not for traditionally dressy places. "I don't like going to cocktail parties and seeing people in jeans," says the advertising executive, who's in her late 20s.
Ms. Popiel estimates she owns about 15 to 20 pairs, including premium brands, and has paid as much as $200 for a pair.
Many others are also paying big bucks for their jeans - from $150 to $1,000 or more per pair. Celebrities, in particular, are making jeans their garb of choice for appearances on talk shows and at some red-carpet events.
That, say fashion experts, sets the tone for the masses, who are encouraged by features like one in the Jan. 24 edition of Us magazine, "Hollywood's 10 Hottest Jeans," complete with suggestions for buying "premium" denim ($140 or more).
The concept of designer jeans is not new, however. They were also hot in the 1970s and 80s.
Are these jeans made for parties?
Etiquette experts offer few hard and fast rules about jeans, but among them are the obvious: Leave them in the closet when you're attending a wedding, or if your workplace bans them.
"A lot of it has to do with the appropriateness of the kind of jean you're wearing," says Peter Post, grandson of manners maven Emily Post and author of the book "Essential Manners for Men."
It comes down to determining if the jeans are for fashion or work. A pair that you do yard work in, for example, are "probably not appropriate to be wearing to a restaurant that night," he explains.
Mr. Post has seen men show up in quality restaurants wearing denim, which doesn't bother him as much as how sloppy their appearance sometimes is.He recalls seeing a man dressed in a T-shirt and old rumpled jeans. "He hadn't taken any care to step it up just a notch, to say to the woman he was with, 'You know, you're really important to me. I want to look good. I want you to look at me and be proud of me,' " he says.
Dark denim is making it easier for men to comfortably wear jeans in the evenings, especially since black jeans are no longer "in." But no matter how hip a certain style may be, some places are still off-limits.
"I probably won't wear them to a funeral," says Robert Smith, a 30- something businessman in Rockton, Ill. But in the past few years he's started wearing them everywhere else - to church and to most work-related functions.
Not the fabric but how it's used
The good news for jeans devotees is that standards for judging people on their appearance are loosening a bit - at least among women under 40. A recent study by Cotton Incorporated indicates that Generation X-age women (26 to 39) are less concerned about first impressions when it comes to dressing than they were 10 years ago, and more often are taking the approach that "you can't judge a book by its cover." The reverse was true for women boomer-age and older.
Alice Harris, author of the book "The Blue Jean," attributes the rise of jeans to casual Fridays in workplaces, which shifted the way people viewed dressing.
"We've actually gone back to a much simpler way of looking at it," suggests Post of the changing attitudes. It's not that certain materials, like denim, are bad. "It's what you've done with that material."
If you buy a hat at Saks,they put your purchase in a hat box.
When I had the hat I wore to my daughter's wedding made (I used an atelier,so that's different),they packed it in a hat box,as they did with her wreath and veil.
But,the last hat I bought,got stuffed into a shopping bag. It wasn't a "good" hat and I bout it when I was on vacation,the store was NOT a department store,so I just figured that's why they used a shopping bag.
What about PREXIES,does that still exist anywhere in N.Y.C. ?
Only two people at the wedding wore hats - me and the piper!
The bride's father is a minister and even his wife did not wear a hat.
That's where my beautiful hat at Nordstroms was destined until I decided to wear it.
Our pastor's wife doesn't wear a hat, either. I am one of the few Gen X women who will cover her head in church.
OTOH,I really am surprised that that's what happened to you at Nordstroms.
This was in San Francisco, where people who dress with a bit of class are looked down upon as being "elitist" and "arrogant".
Where I go to, we own the building but it started in a small room about 10+ years ago. WE already are getting to big for the building we bought two years ago and are looking into expansion already.
Why would you let those scum define you? Even in rebellion, you're still allowing them to dictate your life. You need to live your life *without reference* to them, pro- or con-.
My hair was past my shoulders
Mine still is.
I was accused of being a Hanoi John supporter!
Never happened to me. Perhaps you are not outspoken enough. A pro-gun baseball cap will dispel such nonsense. And quit puttin' sunscreen on your neck! ;-)
I bought a few shirts that actually fit my neck, ties, slacks and sports jackets...with a proper fitting collar the necktie doesn’t strangle me.
Please read my WHOLE post... no never mind, I will excerpt:
"The medical term for it is "tactile defensiveness"... "tactile hypersensitivity" would be a more accurate term for it....clothes that are made of certain fabrics are just torment to wear, even if they "fit" perfectly.
In other words, it's not the fit around the collar or anywhere else, it's the material and sometimes the weave. Some clothes almost feel like sandpaper, and some (ie silk) "tickle" the whole day. The only way I can stay sane and focus on my work (or the sermon, or the concert) is to wear clothes that I can "forget" I have on -- broken-in jeans, flannels, etc -- with the labels cut out of course). Formal clothes bug me about as much as if, for example, I had a long-awned weed seed in my boxer shorts that kept poking at me all day. And this condition is rather common.
Never heard of them. I suspect it would be impossible for me follow their advice anyway, even if I wanted to -- see post 514
Not mecessarily... see post 514. Many of these people (and there are indeed many of us, a lot more than you probably realize), would find a formal dress code an all-but-unbearable stumbling block if it were a "requirement" of faith.
Fortunately, in the Bible, it is NOT. In fact, the Old Testament priests were commanded, "They shall not wear anything that causeth sweat!" -- which seems to rule out coat and tie.
Of course, basic modesty must be upheld (that IS a biblical requirement), and cleanliness, as well, but not "formality", especially uncomfortable formality (and remember that a lot of things that are "comfortable" for you, are NOT comfortable for others)
Prexies?
You've come up with one that I don't know.
Costello's bar is gone -- hanging over the bar was a broken cane that belonged to John O'Hara and broke by Hemingway.
*sigh*
I've stopped mourning the specific places. The people -- the "types" still exist and frequent different venues. There will always be the place where the midwestern girl just off the bus to be a broadway dancer can get a job waitressing. Every guy in NYC will forever have a place where he takes a first date after a movie. There will always be the place were dirty deals are made in a back booth at 3 a.m. And there will always be the place where stand up comics go for a burger after they finish their set at a club.
I also went into deep mourning when DePinna's and Best&Co. and Franklin Simmon and Bonwits and Arnold Constable and B.Altman's closed. :-(
Saks still has a very nice restaurant. And there are other similar places. Humor nature doesn't change and there will always be establishments to cater to it.
But in truth, I doubt whether the children taken on those outings enjoyed them very much -- napkin on your lap please; we do not eat with our arms flying over the table like chimps in the jungle; smaller bites and, please, take a moment to chew properly; what you really want is creme broule, which is very different from pudding. No, we do not signal the waiter with our hands...
humor = human (my fingers aren't working correctly)
Hey..........I LOVED going to the Circus restaurant in Wannamakers! It was all done up like a circus tent and a clown strolled by playing an accordion,throughout the lunch hours.
And the restaurant in Altmans was also not only "kid friendly", but gave out very nice toys too;which varied,depending on the season. When my daughter was little she got a pail and shovel and sand molds with her lunch there and she did NOT behave anything at all like your imaginary,only taken to a McDonalds or such, brat kid and neither did I when I was little.
Since children should be raised to have good table manners at home and know how to behave in a nice restaurant,and all of that parody you posted is beyond stupid ! FYI...creme brule was NEVER served in any of the places I mentioned and so what if it had been? My daughter has always LOVED it.
There was Rupplemyers (sp?) by the St. Moritz (sp?), though I think that closed down a couple of years ago.
The world you describe exists in NYC in such a limited version today, even on the upper east side. Grandmothers taking their grandchildren for an afternoon of shopping are looking at boutiques along Madison and Third. They're eating in Starbucks and diners.
And eating (?) at a Starbucks (they serve lunches?) isn't the same thing at all. Diners? There are now DINERS on Madison and/or Third Ave.?
No,what I mourn is a lost world and I know it. About the ONLY still standing landmark,that my great grandmother,grandmother,mother, my daughter and I will be able to share with a future grandchild of mine,is a ride on the merrygoround in Central Park;I fear.
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