Posted on 03/09/2005 9:47:25 AM PST by qam1
NEW YORK – They've been part of the American "uniform" for years, worn to casual restaurants, house parties, and some workplaces.
But as jeans become more expensive, they are also becoming more ubiquitous, showing up everywhere from Midwestern churches to Broadway shows. Nothing is off limits, it seems. Or is it? Among those who buy high-priced, designer denim or who simply don jeans frequently - there's debate about where it's appropriate to wear them.
The tug of war over jeans etiquette is particularly prevalent in New York City. Here, people tend to be more creative about their appearance, and are often more demanding about how fashion-conscious people should look, says Dannielle Romano, editor at large for DailyCandy.com, a fashion and trends website.
Many 20- and 30-somethings here have theater backgrounds, for example, and often say it's inappropriate to wear jeans to theater and other cultural performances out of respect for the performers and the surroundings (even though the venues themselves have no official dress codes).
"I am all in favor of the current denim revolution that we are having, but I do feel that there are times when jeans should be left at home," says Lisa Kerson, a jewelry designer in her early 30s, whose parents insisted that she look nice when going to a play or traveling on a plane. "I still get bothered when I see people wearing jeans to the theater, ballet, opera, etc.," she says in an e-mail.
Melissa Popiel also prefers not to see denim at the theater, or at an engagement party. To her, jeans are OK for a house party or a casual dinner, but not for traditionally dressy places. "I don't like going to cocktail parties and seeing people in jeans," says the advertising executive, who's in her late 20s.
Ms. Popiel estimates she owns about 15 to 20 pairs, including premium brands, and has paid as much as $200 for a pair.
Many others are also paying big bucks for their jeans - from $150 to $1,000 or more per pair. Celebrities, in particular, are making jeans their garb of choice for appearances on talk shows and at some red-carpet events.
That, say fashion experts, sets the tone for the masses, who are encouraged by features like one in the Jan. 24 edition of Us magazine, "Hollywood's 10 Hottest Jeans," complete with suggestions for buying "premium" denim ($140 or more).
The concept of designer jeans is not new, however. They were also hot in the 1970s and 80s.
Are these jeans made for parties?
Etiquette experts offer few hard and fast rules about jeans, but among them are the obvious: Leave them in the closet when you're attending a wedding, or if your workplace bans them.
"A lot of it has to do with the appropriateness of the kind of jean you're wearing," says Peter Post, grandson of manners maven Emily Post and author of the book "Essential Manners for Men."
It comes down to determining if the jeans are for fashion or work. A pair that you do yard work in, for example, are "probably not appropriate to be wearing to a restaurant that night," he explains.
Mr. Post has seen men show up in quality restaurants wearing denim, which doesn't bother him as much as how sloppy their appearance sometimes is.He recalls seeing a man dressed in a T-shirt and old rumpled jeans. "He hadn't taken any care to step it up just a notch, to say to the woman he was with, 'You know, you're really important to me. I want to look good. I want you to look at me and be proud of me,' " he says.
Dark denim is making it easier for men to comfortably wear jeans in the evenings, especially since black jeans are no longer "in." But no matter how hip a certain style may be, some places are still off-limits.
"I probably won't wear them to a funeral," says Robert Smith, a 30- something businessman in Rockton, Ill. But in the past few years he's started wearing them everywhere else - to church and to most work-related functions.
Not the fabric but how it's used
The good news for jeans devotees is that standards for judging people on their appearance are loosening a bit - at least among women under 40. A recent study by Cotton Incorporated indicates that Generation X-age women (26 to 39) are less concerned about first impressions when it comes to dressing than they were 10 years ago, and more often are taking the approach that "you can't judge a book by its cover." The reverse was true for women boomer-age and older.
Alice Harris, author of the book "The Blue Jean," attributes the rise of jeans to casual Fridays in workplaces, which shifted the way people viewed dressing.
"We've actually gone back to a much simpler way of looking at it," suggests Post of the changing attitudes. It's not that certain materials, like denim, are bad. "It's what you've done with that material."
Jesus wasn't UPSET at all about the wine. Show me one place in Scripture where it even indicates that. He didn't even want to perform the miracle. Mary asked Him to do it and he told her, "Woman, you know it is not my time."
John 2:1-4
2:1 On the third day a wedding took place at Cana in Galilee. Jesus' mother was there, 2 and Jesus and his disciples had also been invited to the wedding. 3 When the wine was gone, Jesus' mother said to him, "They have no more wine."
4 "Dear woman, why do you involve me?" Jesus replied. "My time has not yet come."
(from New International Version)
That's gotta' be the best tag line I've read on FR ever.
I always dress up for the occasion, suits, dress pants and shirt, no jeans and so on. But I would much rather be in your company than any of your detractors. I would never look down upon you or laugh or any such nonsense. Matter of fact I wouldn't even notice what you were wearing one way or the other. You seem like good people, don't ever change.
Ouch! And you are the master of witty comebacks. I have met my better.
There's nothing in the Bible about computers or cars or planes or submarines or cigars or telephones or movies,or the opera,but post something to FR,and somebody is bound to blasphemously pull out some piece of scripture as refutation. That just doesn't work;no matter how much you and others claim it does.
And wearing inappropriate clothing,is just that... INAPPROPRIATE; even if it is now accepted by many.It all adds to the devolution of civilization.
Please don't ever Post that Picture again! This is not a request. I've seen it on FR once before and it chills me to the bone.
FWIW, I think that guy is probably demonized. Mutilation of the body to that extreme is not normal.
I'm sorry you feel as if I have judged anyone on this thread. I must admit I wish I had been more gracious when being personally insulted as to our church and my walk with God simply because I choose not to judge others by the clothes they wear. I have disagreed with some viewpoints on this thread, as have you.
You said, "So why would he wear 2,000+ year old clothes to an opera today?" My goodness. I believe Jesus can appear to us any time He chooses, any where He chooses, wearing any manner of clothes He chooses.
I would be interested to hear your response to what I was actually saying in my last post. Do you find it impossible that Jesus could appear in a form other than what you expect? Do you find it impossible to believe that He could appear as one of "us"?
Thank you brother, I'll make room on the bench for you anytime, anytime at all.
Go back and look at my reply. It's not even about clothing. Heck, it was in reply to your assertion so it isn't like you're not aware of this. I was actually only correcting your misinterpretation of Jesus' miracle of turning water to wine. And somehow challenging your fallacious interpretation of Scripture is blasphemous? Who are you? The FOURth member of the Trinity?
Give me time. I just got to the point where I don't automatically take the Lord's name in vain. I'm a work in progress.
I met a man who dress like Jesus and walked from town to town.He made national news.Joke,hair,robe,style-I talked to him and laughed .
Thank you so much, Gumption. It's nice to know that there are others who really do understand what some of us are trying to say.
"Give me time. I just got to the point where I don't automatically take the Lord's name in vain. I'm a work in progress."
We're ALL a work in progress. You're not alone. :)
Most people would expect Jesus to appear as HE does in paintings,I think; but my point was that why would HE? Why wouldn't HE appear looking just like anyone else? People who know HIM, would know HIM in their hearts,no matter what HE was wearing.
I didn't say a thing about your church,BTW.
And replies went waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay off topic,on this thread, in a most ridiculous and personal way.The whole point,if I'm not mistaken,of the article, is how our culture has been devalued and dumbed down,by the way people now dress. People behave differently,when they wear different types of clothing. This is well know and has been for at least a century.People also react to people,by how they are dressed. Is this superficial and petty? No,I really don't think so.
If someone wore a ball gown to a picnic on a beach, everyone there would find that inappropriate.Wearing jeans to the opera is the obverse of that same coin...but it is becoming more and more accepted;which is a bad thing.
Both philosophies have the same core principle. If it makes me feel good, it must be OK. Established standards and norms have to be changed or ignored if they get in the way of an individual's personal desires or happiness.
How are you tonight,my friend? :-)
Matt 23:1-15
23:1 Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 2 "The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. 3 So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach. 4 They tie up heavy loads and put them on men's shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.
5 "Everything they do is done for men to see: They make their phylacteries wide and the tassels on their garments long; 6 they love the place of honor at banquets and the most important seats in the synagogues; 7 they love to be greeted in the marketplaces and to have men call them 'Rabbi.'
8 "But you are not to be called 'Rabbi,' for you have only one Master and you are all brothers. 9 And do not call anyone on earth 'father,' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. 10 Nor are you to be called 'teacher,' for you have one Teacher, the Christ. 11 The greatest among you will be your servant. 12 For whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.
13 "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the kingdom of heaven in men's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.
15 "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are.
(from New International Version)
Matt 23:23-28
23 "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices-mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law-justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former. 24 You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.
25 "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. 26 Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean.
27 "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of dead men's bones and everything unclean. 28 In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.
(from New International Version)
ladyinred, Forever in blue jeans, and thankful she doesn't live or work, or play in NY where they are obviously not as welcome as they are in California!!!
"Most people would expect Jesus to appear as HE does in paintings,I think; but my point was that why would HE? Why wouldn't HE appear looking just like anyone else? People who know HIM, would know HIM in their hearts,no matter what HE was wearing."
Yes, some people may expect Him to look like some painting they saw. Not me. That's why I said that He could be the young man in jeans sitting next to you in church.
No, you weren't one of those who said anything my church.
nopardons said, "People behave differently,when they wear different types of clothing." Perhaps that is true in some situations. But I believe, for example, that a true lady is a lady no matter if she's wearing a ball gown, or jeans. I've seen plenty of women in my time who dressed real nice, but they sure didn't act like "ladies".
Your other main comment, "People also react to people,by how they are dressed. Is this superficial and petty? No,I really don't think so". IMO, that pretty much sums up the difference between you and I, and some others on this thread. I believe judging people, or reacting to people, by how they are dressed IS superficial and petty.
Staying up.This person was at a conference-told what to say.You don't want to know what I did and why is a thread about Jeans so turned around?
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