Posted on 03/08/2005 12:06:04 PM PST by r5boston
Nearly a decade ago, just a few months after Microsoft shipped Windows 95, I asked Bill Gates if it was a conscious decision in the development of that product to give Windows more of a Mac look and feel. Of course I knew he'd say it wasn't, but I couldn't resist asking. "There was no goal even to compete with Macintosh," Gates proclaimed. "We don't even think of Macintosh as a competitor."
That was a crock, so I pressed the issue a little. I asked him how he accounted for the widespread perception that Windows 95 looked a lot like Mac 88, and whether the similarity was just a coincidence. I didn't expect a sobbing confession of mimicry, but I thought it would be cool to see how he'd respond. Surprisingly enough, Gates shifted gears and became more forthcoming.
(Excerpt) Read more at macworld.com ...
This is also faulty logic, Dog. First, the set of "George Bush" contains TWO members who can be found in the set of "presidents". However, the set of "Presidents" contains a number greater than two... in fact thousands more than two. I myself am a president and a member of that set. To say that Bush is equal to all members of that set would then require that Bush = Swordmaker (who is also a member of the set "presidents"). That is patently false on its face.
However, the set of "The President of the Unted States" always contains only ONE member... and the statement that George W. Bush = THE President of the United States is TRUE.
The statement that George H.W. Bush = The President of the United States is FALSE, while the statement that George H.W.Bush WAS a President of the United States is TRUE.
This is just bad algebra.. and more bad logic... from you, not from Petronski. The units are not the same and cannot be compared... apples and oranges.
You do not even understand what we are talking about. Have you ever taken a course in economics?
A "market" is a mechanism which allows people to trade, normally governed by the theory of supply and demand. In a market, value and price are determined between willing buyers and willing sellers. If the buyer pays the price the seller asks, both are satisfied. If the buyer does not like the price, he does not buy. If the seller finds his goods are not selling, he lowers his asking price. This is economics 101.
Firmware
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.In computing, firmware is software that is embedded in a hardware device, that allows reading and executing the software, but does not allow modification, e.g., writing or deleting data by an end user.
Examples of firmware include:
- the BIOS found in personal computers,
- Open Firmware, used in Apple Macintosh computers,
- the computer program in a read-only memory (ROM) integrated circuit (A hardware configuration is usually used to represent the software.),
- the erasable programmable read-only memory (EPROM) chip, whose program may be modified by special external hardware, but not by an application program.
Source: from Federal Standard 1037C and from MIL-STD-188
"Embedded in hardware" and "A hardware configuration is usually used to represent the software"...
The point that started all this is that COMPAQ took the HARD BURNED, HARD-WIRED ROM out of a IBM-PC and reverse engineered the OUTPUT of that piece of hardware by determining what it did and creating a new code that did the same thing... and then installed it in their own piece of hardware. The ROM chip in the IBM-PC that contained the BIOS was the only not-off-the-shelf component in the computer... and it was what kept all other completely identical assemblies of hardwarre and software from operating identically to an IBM-PC.
I disagree... Software resides on MEDIA... floppy disk, hard disk, removable, fixed... some resides on a piece of paper and must be typed in. The media might be a part of a piece of hardware...
Again, you are wrong. A CD that contains data does not have to fit the definition of "firmware" unless its content is designed by a company to direct the operation of a piece of hardware the firm has built or designed.
Incidentally your CD is really referred to CD-ROM... which translates as Compact Disc - Read Only Memory. Of course some are the equivalent of PROM... those would be CD-R, while others are equivalent to EPROM... the CD R/W.
More examples of how your imprecise terminology that trips up your attempts at logic syllogisms.
Good response, Bush. However, when I was much younger, hearing tests showed I could easily hear up 18kH and there are music overtones in that range that add quality to music. However, now, with my 55 year old ears... even 14kH might be pushing it...
Right. Sure. You mean to tell me that all those hundreds of cars sitting on the new car lots, ready for test drives, are unsafe and unprepared for sale. Sure. Right.
If its atypical, then all eleven of the brand new cars I have purchased in my life, from at least six dealers were handled the exact same way.
Bush, those cars are prepared for sale BEFORE any potential customer climbs behind the wheel. The most the dealer might do is top off the tank, and run it through a car wash, if they haven't already washed it... oh, and pull off the Moroni Stickers.
It is simply not my experience. And, Bush, I am far more experienced at this than are you. I have quite a few clients running OSX and still running classic apps... they have no problems.
Even that website with the "problems" (90% of which were questions of "how do I do...") contains a grand total of 537 questions... dated from January 20, 2002 to March 14, 2005... and there are over 14,000,000 Mac OSX users. That does not make for a major problem.
As we have stated, Classic mode in OSX actually runs classic apps faster and better than a native OS9 environment. Does it have problems? Yes... many of the same problems that caused Apple to move to the UNIX based OSX in the first place. That is the experience of 99% of OSX users... not the 1% who may have a problem.
Even that website with the "problems" (90% of which were questions of "how do I do...") contains a grand total of 537 questions... dated from January 20, 2002 to March 14, 2005... and there are over 14,000,000 Mac OSX users. That does not make for a major problem. -SM
Hey, little wannabeBush, you have spent days accusing the Mac guys as zealots, and confused idiots. Do you think you may be some sort of zealot yourself?
Bushie, your arguments always fall short of valid facts, and are usually interlaced with cheap shots at Mac users. You refer to your PC statistics, but they only prove our Mac points, for us. Why do you appear so jealous, that you try to belittle the thing you really want... to be included with a group.
I drive a Ford. Fords were driven in the Nascar race last sunday. I did not drive in the Nascar race last sunday. But, I was one of the fans watching on TV! Ford had the pole. Chevrolet won. They both raced, and passes the Mopars... I will still keep my Ford. It takes me where I want to go. (it's actually a Lincoln)
As I said before, you will NEVER change a Mac user to the dark side, so why don't you admit defeat and slink away...
BTW, do you use IE or Firefox for a browser. We know who has the best one for your PC?
I bought a shuffle for running with last month, and I like it, despite the lack of a screen. It's amazingly light, I'm just surprised that I can put it on a lanyard and hang it around my neck when I run, and not notice that it's there. I suspect in the summer, when I'm wearing less and less, that I'll need an armband or something, but so far the lightness is what impresses me the most. I've run quite a bit since I bought it (probably about 10 hours total), and I still haven't really charged the batteries yet.
Duh, that's the definition of a PROM.
They reverse engineered the software.
Actually, they reverse-engineered an entire published specification, of which the software was a part.
This all started because you claimed they reverse-engineered the hardware and then you tried to claim firmware was hardware.
This all started because you wanted to make a mountain out of a molehill. You lost the main argument, so you started delving into semantics and definitions.
A ROM, PROM, EPROM or EEPROM is firmware when there's software on it. Without any software they are just hunks of hardware (although you'll never see an empty ROM unless you are the manufacturer).
Because the software on a PROM is read-only and the software on the hard drive is not .. Firm refers to inability to change it easily.
The software on an EEPROM isn't read-only and it's easily changed.
The definition is a bit misleading to newbies. The PROM's are hardware but PROM's by themselves do nothing and are not firmware.
What's what I wrote above, and you said it's wrong.
Close. It is the fact it is read-only that makes it firmware. firm = unable to change easily.
Flashing my Linksys firmware is as easy as writing to my hard drive. It's not the "easy" that counts.
Except that I used to program EPROMs.
Clue: firmware derives its name from the fact it is read-only ... It is not the "packaging" - it is the fact it is read-only. ... software stored in read-only memory = firmware
Yet I updated my Linksys firmware last week with a couple clicks of a mouse button. Read-only? I think not.
Just my take dont want to get into this the way you two have been at it:
But the way firmware functions is different than that of standard software. In theory I could lay out the PROM in MAGIC and produce a fixed VLSI chip that can replace the firmware. its programmable as it related to it can be updated, thats about it. Photoshop on the hard drive is only there as a form of storage not so it can function there. AR is right in that the reason its not called system software and was given the name firmware is that it functions in a way fundamentally different than other software (and yet for the same purpose)..
I can sum it up in two words: superior engineering. As far as name goes, I'd prefer to have a portable music machine bearing the name "Sony" but then they don't have a good product in this market. I love the Creative brand, and have owned several of their products over the years, but their players are also not as good.
Value is subjective, not objective. An commodity's value on the open market is not just the sum of its parts. For example, it doesn't cost much to make a Lotus Elise, probably less than many other cars, but it's priced much higher than other cars in its category. Overpriced? Drive one and you won't think it is. That's the subjective value of a better user experience, like with the iPod.
Yes, name and hype does drive up the price. The Lotus Elise twin, the Vauxhall VX220 which was manufactured on the same assembly line as the Elise, sold for less because it didn't have the Lotus badge, but it didn't sell well. Badges and hype have a market value of their own. That's one reason we have advertising.
But then I think we tend towards different schools of economics, and a lot of people a lot smarter than us have already argued the different sides.
Clearly you have not read the 8 technical definitions of the word firmware. Like I said, you are in way over your head.
The problem here is you understand logic about as much as you understand computer technology. You applied fallacious logic when you tried to equate a subset with the whole - to make your faulty logic work you are forced to make absurd claims like firmware is not software.
So a CD-ROM is firmware?
That was a joke Mr. Clueless. Have you ever heard the theme from Shaft? The point was about opinion and the value of opinion. BTW: read the claim closely - it is impossible to disprove because it is merely my opinion and I think you are going to find it hard to prove that is not my opinion - unless of course you can read minds.
You said, "sorry but UI and the Apple logo was not worth an additional $220," after I made it clear I bought it for the superior sound. Your only response to my point about it sounding better was the fact/opinion nonsense.
The comment about the $220 was speaking about MY transaction and it had nothing whatsoever to do with you.
Everything you said was opinion - deal with it.
This is just idiotic and a time waster. First of all, at a basic level, its true, but so what?
Did you major is doublespeak? First you say it is idiotic then you say it is true. The point was simple - all you are presenting in support of your Ipod purchase is personal opinion. No more, no less.
This is a discussion forum where (gasp!) opinions are going to be offered.
That was my point - GASP!
I'm totally unclear as to what your point is, since we are discussing the relative merits of a product. If I said the iPod is white, would you call that opinion as well?
You need to ask youself this question - why did YOU jump into the middle of this thread. Your reasons for buying the Ipod are opinion - the color is not.
Second, this nonsense is used solely when one can't argue the merits or the issue, but needs a backhanded way of responding.
Yes, silly little victory dances like the one you just did are nonense.
Stick to the issue: if you disagree with my views on the iPod sound, say so.
Already did.
If you never compared it, be honest. But my argument is neither less substantiated nor proven incorrect by you claiming its only my opinion.
Yes, I compared the Ipod and the Creative Nomad. The point was not to prove or disprove your argument - I was merely putting it into perspective. BTW: It freaked you out when I pointed out what you were stating was opinion (you were trying to claim it was fact).
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