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Oldest biped skeleton discovered - new evolution record, 1.2 millions added in one day
http://cooltech.iafrica.com/science/421933.htm ^ | Mon, 07 Mar 2005

Posted on 03/07/2005 3:19:42 PM PST by Truth666

A joint Ethiopian-US team of palaeontologists announced on Saturday they had discovered the world's oldest biped skeleton to be unearthed so far, dating it to between 3.8 and four million years old.

"This is the world's oldest biped," Bruce Latimer, director of the natural history museum in Cleveland, Ohio, told a news conference in the Ethiopian capital, adding that "it will revolutionise the way we see human evolution".

The bones were found three weeks ago in Ethiopia's Afar region, at a site some 60 kilometres from Hadar where Lucy, one of the first hominids, was discovered in 1974. Researchers at the site in northeast Ethiopia have in all unearthed 12 hominid fossils, of which parts of one skeleton were discovered.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: evolution; fauxiantroll; fauxiantrolls; youngearthdelusion; youngearthdelusions
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To: Coyoteman
The answer to most of your questions is natural selection.

Sounds like a non-answer. Doesn't explain why there aren't other half-human, half-ape, semi-reasoning/moral creatures around.

121 posted on 03/08/2005 10:24:54 AM PST by Zhangliqun (What are intellectuals for but to complexify the obvious?)
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To: taxesareforever
And by the way, a characteristic that apes and man don't share? Speech.

Apes might not speak English, but they certainly do communicate through sound.

And another: A brain which knows right from wrong.

Right and wrong are rules enforced by society. Groups of apes certainly enforce certain behavioral rules.

And another: Humans have souls

Where is the soul located? Has anyone ever actually seen one?

122 posted on 03/08/2005 10:26:20 AM PST by Modernman ("Normally, I don't listen to women, or doctors." - Captain Hero)
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To: TenthAmendmentChampion
Why does all coal have carbon 14 in it??

I think you meant carbon 12. Nitrogen is the stable isotope with atomic weight of 14.

123 posted on 03/08/2005 10:27:13 AM PST by <1/1,000,000th%
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To: metacognative; Truth666
I don't believe there has ever been a "science" with as many frauds, hoaxes, mistakes and flim-flammery as this preposterous darwin belief system.

They're called "creation science" and "intelligent design".

124 posted on 03/08/2005 10:28:58 AM PST by <1/1,000,000th%
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To: FastCoyote
Geologists are so stupid, they can't even find oil.

Congratulations on having a reliable hydrogen car.

125 posted on 03/08/2005 10:30:36 AM PST by <1/1,000,000th%
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To: Zhangliqun
Sounds like a non-answer. Doesn't explain why there aren't other half-human, half-ape, semi-reasoning/moral creatures around.

Why would you expect there to be? Our ancestors evolved in a particular direction. All of our hominid non-homo sapiens forbears are extinct. The other apes evolved in a different direction from us. Gorrillas and Chimps aren't likely to evolve into half-man, half-ape.

Where do you expect such half-man, half-ape beings to have evolved from?

126 posted on 03/08/2005 10:33:10 AM PST by Modernman ("Normally, I don't listen to women, or doctors." - Captain Hero)
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To: DannyTN; js1138
My guess is that 100% of it has a known function.

I think we already had this discussion on another thread. The mice who had the 200 million base pairs removed were fine. I suppose the ID'ers will want to wait a few million years to be sure. They always want everythinig to be measured in millions of years. /sarcasm

127 posted on 03/08/2005 10:33:17 AM PST by <1/1,000,000th%
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To: mysterio
Also, I am a Christian and I believe that God created life and mapped out the whole thing.

Welcome to the club!

It's also nice to have someone actually working in the field add their comments to the "discussion".

128 posted on 03/08/2005 10:35:04 AM PST by <1/1,000,000th%
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To: mysterio
Everything evolved from single celled organisms, and yet there are still single celled organisms. Why? Because the ecological niche that supported those organisms is still there. We evolved due to genetic recombination that moved along a little at at a time. Just because one member of a species mutates doesn't mean that all will mutate.

But likewise it doesn't mean that all except for this one mutuation that resulted in us WON'T mutate either.

Some of the population will stay the same, and provided that niche still remains, the original species will as well. The intermediate steps along the chain from apes to humans either interbred or were outcompeted by modern humans. There are arguments for each case.

But wouldn't there still be some members of the ape species that would continue to evolve? Just because these others were "outcompeted" doesn't mean that the tendencies toward mutation and evolution are suddenly "afraid" to come out from that point on -- unless somehow both apes and humans developed genes that miraculously bred these tendencies to mutate out of both species. In other words, given the great lengths of time we're talking about, it follows that there was plenty of time for other mutations and species to evolve after these groups were "outcompeted" by the modern human, would they not?

Also, I am a Christian and I believe that God created life and mapped out the whole thing.

I do too, and it's quite possible that "evolution" is the means God chose for creation. With minor differences, the story in Genesis very closely parallels the sequence of the appearance of the various life forms that is conventional wisdom among biologists. I don't subscribe to the earth being 6,000 years old. After all, God, being the inventor of time itself, is by definition no slave to time and is therefore not in any kind of "hurry".

I do believe there was a Garden of Eden and that it really was perfect, and I hypothesize that the effect of Original Sin was retroactive in time, turning the original peaceful creatures into violent carnivores with flesh-tearing teeth, etc.

129 posted on 03/08/2005 10:40:30 AM PST by Zhangliqun (What are intellectuals for but to complexify the obvious?)
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To: WestVirginiaRebel; js1138

Looks like ALS is back.


130 posted on 03/08/2005 10:41:32 AM PST by <1/1,000,000th%
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To: metacognative
I don't believe there has ever been a "science" with as many frauds, hoaxes, mistakes and flim-flammery as this preposterous darwin belief system.

I don't believe in Darwin or that the earth is 8000 years old, now what?

131 posted on 03/08/2005 10:44:53 AM PST by Protagoras (If the Republican Party enacts a new tax they will be out of power for at least a generation)
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To: DannyTN
So now man was on the earth almost 4,000,000 years and didn't manage to leave a significant trace until the last 6,000-10,000 years. Yeah right.

And the earth is only 6,000-10,000 years old because of that?

132 posted on 03/08/2005 10:47:55 AM PST by Protagoras (If the Republican Party enacts a new tax they will be out of power for at least a generation)
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To: Ichneumon
Not necessarily, no. Evolution is not required to "fill in" between divergent species.

So you're saying one day a female ape was pregnant and gave birth to a human? Sounds a bit more far-fetched than the looniest creationist theory. Sorry, there's got to be some "filling in".

But the little light bulb may go off over your head if you stop to ponder that there *have* been other hominoid species, as shown by the fossil record.

I have actually pondered that at great length, and there is no need to insult me or imply that I'm stupid. But that doesn't change the fact that your answer doesn't explain why more such hominoids haven't appeared SINCE the hominoids you are referring to were wiped out. Are the mutant genes suddenly "afraid" to come out after the previous failure? It seems to me that they would just keep on coming.

That answers your question right there, even though they haven't all survived to modern day. As to why they haven't, ask yourself this: Given man's known ability to be remarkably intolerant and violent towards other *races*, just imagine how well he'd treat another humanlike *species*.

We have no more of this "known ability" than any other creature on the face of the earth. Do you know of spiders that are tolerant of each other? Put two of the same species in the same jar and they will kill each other. Sharks will eat each other in feeding frenzy. Almost every creature

And no, that doesn't answer my question right there, why more hominoid species are not continuing to appear. They wouldn't just stop appearing just because this other mutation didn't work out.

At our church, if we don't regularly keep our gutters clean, grass begins to grow in them. We clean out the grass, killing it as a result, and we have clean gutters. But if we get lazy and wait another 6 months to clean them out, we have more grass in our gutters. The grass seeds blowing about in the wind aren't suddenly "afraid" to land in our gutters because they heard through the grapevine (so to speak) that it wasn't too safe a place to grow. They just keep coming, no matter how many times we wipe out their predecessors. So I assume it would be with mutant genes -- they should just keep on coming.

As I said in a previous post, I'm not dead-set against the possibility of evolution because it could very well be the means God chose for creation. But when I ask a few questions I've never heard addressed by the scientific community on either side of the argument, I don't see the point in you responding with such a snotty, condescending attitude.

133 posted on 03/08/2005 11:01:30 AM PST by Zhangliqun (What are intellectuals for but to complexify the obvious?)
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To: Modernman
Where do you expect such half-man, half-ape beings to have evolved from?

From apes, of course. If we came from them, then this half-breed would too, and would be the "missing link" between us and apes.

Otherwise, it has to be the case that at least two female apes in proximity to one another gave birth to fully human offspring, one of each sex, and the two fully human offspring grew up and mated. I'm no expert on genetic probabilities, but I think that one would have to be rather improbable.

134 posted on 03/08/2005 11:12:01 AM PST by Zhangliqun (What are intellectuals for but to complexify the obvious?)
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To: Zhangliqun
I think the story of the Garden of Eden refers directly to evolution. Before our brains evolved to the point of self-realization, we were blissfully ignorant, just like other animals. The tree of knowledge and the apple simply represent a more complex brain evolving. Animals cannot sin because they have no capacity to sin. Humans, however, do because of our more complex brains and the ability to judge between right and wrong. Once we evolved to that point, there was no going back to the simple innocence of animal life. I think the Garden of Eden story is a parable to teach us that we have greater intellect, but with that comes greater responsibility.
135 posted on 03/08/2005 11:20:17 AM PST by mysterio
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To: <1/1,000,000th%
"The mice who had the 200 million base pairs removed were fine."

That's what docs said about people who had their appendix out. But now we know there is a slight increase in colon cancer because the function that the appendix performed was important.

The DNA that was removed, may have had a function that was not related to the immediate health of the mice. You might find that the decendants of those mice have less variability than normal mice decendants, because that DNA was removed. Or you might find that their defense against a rare disease is compromised. Or the possibilities are endless. We simply do not know enough yet to be able to say that that DNA neither has a function now, nor had one in the past.

But that doesn't stop the arrogant evolutionist from saying so. Even after he's been proved wrong repeatedly, he just simply says, "Ok so that part has a function, the rest of this doesn't".

136 posted on 03/08/2005 11:22:12 AM PST by DannyTN
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To: Zhangliqun

Of course the transition didn't occur all at once. It probably happened a lot the way hair loss is happening now. There's no reproductive disadvantage to having less body hair, so it has been gradually disappearing over thousands of years. Head hair, too. Harmful mutations kill us or make us unable to compete. Neutral ones occur and don't have any effect. Helpful ones are selected for, and develop over many generations.


137 posted on 03/08/2005 11:25:00 AM PST by mysterio
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To: Zhangliqun
Also 99.9% of mutations are NOT advantageous and in most cases - deadly. You could think of "Siamese twins" as a mutation...but it is not a favorable mutation - so the odds of a conjoined species of man evolving is low. However, if the world were such that siamese twins had a reproductive advantage over "normals".... you could possibly see a race of conjoined people evolve. That's how it works. Soooo simple - yet, so hard for many to believe.
99% of people have no REAL concept of how evolution actually works.
138 posted on 03/08/2005 11:30:33 AM PST by KeepUSfree (WOSD = fascism pure and simple.)
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To: Zhangliqun; Ichneumon
Not necessarily, no. Evolution is not required to "fill in" between divergent species. - Icheneumon

So you're saying one day a female ape was pregnant and gave birth to a human? Sounds a bit more far-fetched than the looniest creationist theory. Sorry, there's got to be some "filling in". - Zhangligun

Since the human would need a member of the opposite sex to procreate with, those apes must have been poppin humans like flies.

139 posted on 03/08/2005 11:30:42 AM PST by DannyTN
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To: DannyTN
That's what docs said about people who had their appendix out. But now we know there is a slight increase in colon cancer because the function that the appendix performed was important.

Actually, I did not know that. Do you have a citation for that info?

140 posted on 03/08/2005 11:45:30 AM PST by AntiGuv (™)
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