Posted on 03/07/2005 9:49:24 AM PST by Jeff Head
All I'm trying to say!!
Lets see:
A gator fleet, some upgraded destroyers, and 13 new submarines added to their collection of old Soviet era Kilo's and less than a half dozen homebuilt nukes.
Compared to the US Seventh fleet, this is one days work, even with the Chinese work in missile and anti-ship technology.
And if the 7th fleet isnt enough, there is always boomer floating around to make the scorecard even.
In that competition, the net result is not spilled oil, less longevity of a product or something that doesn't produce quite as good fidelity sound...no, that competition is ultimately barterd in lives and blood, lots of lives and blood.
Good job Jeff!
They deploy as part of training exercises. The same way as other US strategic bomber fly out to ranges in the UK and all the way back after dropping bombs as part of global projection missions. For too long the B-2 was reliant on operating solely from the US. With deployable climate controlled shelters the B-2 can now deploy and operate from a number of airfields worldwide. Not every deployment of a strategic bomber is a warning/threat sabre rattling or impending action. To listen to some Freepers on the subject they are convinced that they are off to drop bombs on North Korea within the week!
Thanks, I have a son in law in the services. Our enemies are quite content to expend quite a few cheap DE's to bag one or more of our nukes. The only place they have the chance to do that, IMHO, is in the littorals. They want to draw our big boats in there, where they may be able to maintain some symbolance of air superiority because it is so close to their shores, so they can take their shots against our subs...and also against our carriers.
And nobody is paying attention to this. Nobody.
No kidding man. We (the collective we) just don't seem to get the fact that the Peace of San Francisco of 1951, and, it's modifier, the Treaty of Paris of 1990, is essentially unravelling. In the West, we've talked ourselves into believing that we are "beyond the end of history" and that an unprecedented era of peace and prosperity has taken over. It's understandable, when we see things like NAFTA and the EU and the many, essentially Western initiated things like WTO and the like. The anti Western forces, having sensed the zeal with which the West has embraced this false peace, have, with the exception of certain Islamist extremists, who fight us in the here and now, feined to embrace this latest attempt at creating a global market utopia. It is allowing them, especially and particularly true in the case of the PRC, to seize the means of production with Western acquiescence and to make the West dependent on them. Most in the West believe, foolishly, that the PRC will actually truly ascend to the WTO and abide by its rules, in 2007. That is their justification for not taking a war preparation stance. It's tragic.
That's if we ever decide to use the 7th Fleet to defend Taiwan. China's economic prowess, her ever increasing hold of vital oil resources, her control over the Panama canal, her road mobile ICBMs, etc., give China a larger and larger stick/carrot to "convince" Washington that maybe standing in the ChiComs way isn't quite worth the pain that such a move would bring.
That are many ways to defeat and adversary, on the battle field is just one of them.
Well, lately, the Defense Department and the Bush administration seem to be paying much more attention. A few months ago we surged seven carriers for exercises off of Taiwan...now we are sending B-2's to Guam and basing more SSN's in the area. Messages are being sent...and they are publicizing the concerns in the press nowadays. Hopefully the pendulum is swinging a bit.
It's going to be dicey...and if we are going to get past it, we need to take the economic battle back to them starting right now, IMHO, and bite the bullet and treat them like Reagan did the Soviets in the 80's. Just my own take on the matter.
Jeff,
You are reading too much into the Varyag. It certainly is not being outfitted. It still sits as a rusting enginless hulk. It would cost a fortune for the PRC to outfit it back to operational status.
If we, as a nation, have not consistently shown the resolve, since WW2, to defeat each and every Communist insurgency and other forms of vermin, with swift, decisive and overwhelming force, then where will we gain such resolve in the sort of conflict that seems to be brewing in Asia? We already have to tip toe (at least according to the standard logic) around various accusations by both elements in fellow Western countries and some of our own here in the US, of "imperialism" and "hegemony." Make no mistake, even the WOT is downscoped versus what it could have been, precisely due to such considerations. So if we prosecute a down scoped war in response to an attack on the WTC and Pentagon (and threats of much, much more pain), and we outright have failed against two bit Commie insurgents more than once (or at least, our proxies have failed) and, we have a bunch of Michael Moores and Ward Churchills running around fomenting national self hatred, what precisely do we imagine the response would really be if the PRC moved against Taiwan, or for that matter, on multiple Asian fronts? So long as they don't immediately threaten the oil, or, other, of our vital interests, how will we muster a good, swift, massive response, with all these accusers both within and without, who already envy and hate the West and the Western Tradition?
Ouch, math hurts.
They may not make it operational...in my book series I do not see them taking that track. But they are studying it and learning. They may end up doing something entirely different and unexpected...that's what I try and project, creating very capable STOL/VTOL carriers first in numbers for battling it out close in...followed later by larger deck carriers.
We shall see.
You all are arguing about Wal Mart when you ought to be looking at computers, and other electronics, including even the innards of DoD equipment and weapons systems. Is the Wal Mart debate a smoke screen, preventing substantive debate acout ICs, PCBAs, computuers, RF amplifiers, rare earth minerals, and the like?
China is definitely pursuing an encirclement strategy, thats a well known fact. Our politicians are sleeping at the helm, and thats a fact too. Both parties.
China will be a threat in a few years, but I can speak from 5 years experience in the US 7th Fleet. China's navy is regionally formidable, but it cannot even begin to compete with US 7th Fleet even if it gets two carriers into commission. The 7th would smoke them so hard they would wish they had never dreamed of the idea.
Taiwan may not be the spark point, but China will seek another sooner or later. Its inevitable that they will challenge us for the Pacific. Its also inevitable the 7th Fleet will kick them hard in the sternsheets when they do, wherever they do.
If the ballons go up in a major way...and if things look dire (as they did in the early days of WW II) not knowing if we will prevail or survive...look for all the PC stuff to quickly go out the windows. Unfortunately, it sadly appears that a few thousand deaths will not get us to that stage...it will probably take hundreds of thousands. But when we get there...then the gloves will come off and the slug fest will be on.
The key for me is the surge capacity they have for serial ship production. They are currently among the top 3 producers of marine tonnage. And if one were to include all the container cranes they are pushing out of there, they would be number one in terms of tonnage shipped. Imagine that capacity, or even a larger fraction of it, applied to serial production of miltary ships and subs.
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