Posted on 03/03/2005 7:05:07 AM PST by FairOpinion
WASHINGTON Mar 3, 2005 — Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan on Thursday embraced the notion of overhauling the nation's tax system and said that some form of a consumption tax such as a national sales tax could spur greater economic growth.
"As you know, many economists believe that a consumption tax would be best from the perspective of promoting economic growth particularly if one were designing a tax system from scratch because a consumption tax is likely to encourage saving and capital formation," Greenspan said.
(Excerpt) Read more at abcnews.go.com ...
Not so! In fact, the best protection against such a scenario yet proposed is HR25/S25, the FairTax bill which would repeal the income tax, make all such taxes illegal by statute, and require the destruction of ALL IRS records.
You don't know what you're talking about...Have you ever seen anything on sale? Ever hear of discounts? Or have you ever heard of volume pricing at any level of sales/purchasing? What happens when a new model car for example sells for more than the sticker? More tax...
Honesty outlives the lie, spin and deception -- It always has -- It always will.
Shooting the messenger is always so transparent.
A guy is making $50K, say, and instead of paying 20% in income taxes, he has to pay 20% in sales tax. Is he going take anything less than $50K from his employer? -- no way. So the hidden/embedded tax is still there -- it's now an embedded sales tax instead of an income tax, but it's still built into the employer's costs.
You don't know what you're talking about..
Sure I do. I know exactly what I'm saying is correct..
Have you ever seen anything on sale? Ever hear of discounts? Or have you ever heard of volume pricing at any level of sales/purchasing? What happens when a new model car for example sells for more than the sticker? More tax...
Ask any business owner CEO or CFO if costs are included in the selling price of a product. Their answer is yes. The nature of business is to earn a profit and to achieve that all cost must be taken into consideration before setting product prices.
I can't believe you're arguing that the tax cost isn't embedded into the price just as other costs are embedded into the price. Especially since several times it has been explained to you.
Zon: Honesty outlives the lie, spin and deception -- It always has -- It always will.
Shooting the messenger is always so transparent.
Honesty is its own reward and it nailed you dead on. Sort of exposing yourself a bit much aren't you.
You're missing the FCA ("rebate") component. The sales tax rate you're talking about would be the marginal tax rate, but the effective tax rate would be significantly lower than the marginal rate.
A guy is making $50K, say, and instead of paying 20% in income taxes, he has to pay 20% in sales tax. Is he going take anything less than $50K from his employer? -- no way. So the hidden/embedded tax is still there -- it's now an embedded sales tax instead of an income tax, but it's still built into the employer's costs.
Offhand I don't know what percentage of embedded costs the employees share of payroll taxes make up of the total amount of embedded taxes that the fairtax removes. My "guessstimate" is about 1/3rd. Perhaps ancient-geezer knows.
Sorry for a second reply... I just read it again and saw a different point to make. If the guy is making $50K, his employer is currently paying $53,825 for his payroll, because of the "employer's share" of the payroll tax (7.65% "shares", 15.3% total). His employer would immediately save $3,825 while the employee would still get his entire paycheck.
I thought they flat taxed income. Do they do both?
If we go to a National Retail Sales Tax they sure as hell better eliminate withholding! ;o)
The pimps and dealers will get around it, but that won't be how.
They'll just buy "previously owned" luxury cars.
I imagine that tax will be collected on any recordable transaction such as a vehicle purchase where the title has to be changed, used or not. There will be some purely cash transactions which will escape, I am sure.
I'm just not convinced by this tax yet. Seems to me it prsupposes that consumer behavior won't change. I think consumers will think twice when a big chunk of tax is added to large purchases.
That will discourage consumption so while you will have lots to invest with, what will you invest IN?
Vat and Retail Sales Taxes are vastly different!
Vat taxes are insidious. They are hidden and therefore the answer to every big spending politician's dream.
A vat tax, by its very nature, would carry a significantly lower nominal rate than a retail sales tax and would therefore be an easier sell to the Sheeple. So, for heaven's sake, everybody, stop promoting it on these threads.
Then the citizens with demand lowers taxes. Don't you see the beauty of the plan.
First get the taxes into light with a sales tax. Then demand lower taxes.
with = will
My house was purchased with after tax income. Ditto for most people. All the equity portion of the mortgage loan was covered by after tax income. Only the "market" equity from "appreciation" isn't taxed and that is only true if you live for 2 of 5 years in the house before making a sale. That "appreciation" is mostly dollar devaluation. Southern California's overheated real estate market is one of the few places where market equity signficantly exceeds the equity paid back by after-tax dollars. My only pre-tax assets are 401K. Most of my after tax savings are sitting in stocks. The only "deal" in NRST for me is avoiding income tax on the 401K.
Ok so you and I get upset but how many people bought the dumblecrat garbage that W's cuts were for the rich? How many people actually justify paying taxes and more of them.
I'm not talking about the politicians....think about how many bond issues get passed. How easily it is to raise taxes for "education". People are not all ignorant lemmings: they have their arguments as to how government has to be involved in this and that.
Just as easily, Congress can adjust the rate up or down[?]. I've heard it argued that with it so obvious, that they won't but I'm not sure I buy that either. It hasn't stopped them before even with obvious taxes, not just hidden ones.
I wouldn't bet against you, but that's not the way its being promoted.
Nice try, but it doesn't hunt. Where is the money coming from to make up the missing income to the Feds? It will be rolled into the sales tax, of course, and still be embedded in the employer's costs.
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