Posted on 03/02/2005 3:46:40 PM PST by Crackingham
The House of Representatives voted Tuesday to let people carry weapons - including guns, grenades, rockets, mines and sawed-off shotguns - into schools, polling places and nuclear plants if they claim they're only trying to protect themselves.
The vote on the legislation came after Rep. Ben Miranda, D-Phoenix, pointed out it would bar prosecution of those who want to bring a weapon into the House or Senate. Despite that, lawmakers gave it preliminary approval on a 30-16 margin.
But what's in House Bill 2666 surprised even Rep. Doug Quelland, R-Phoenix, who introduced the legislation and shepherded it through the House. He said he had no idea the legislation, crafted by constituents he wouldn't identify, was so broad that it would provide a catchall exemption in the state's weapons laws.
Quelland said he wants to ensure that those who carry a concealed weapon without getting the required state permit do not wind up being charged with a crime.
He said that, if it were up to him, anyone would be able to carry a weapon in a pocket or purse or in a holster beneath a jacket without getting state permission. Quelland said only people who prey on others should be prosecuted under gun laws.
But he conceded that's not what his bill does.
Current statutes list a series of acts that are a crime. These range from carrying a concealed weapon without a permit and having a deadly weapon on school grounds, to possessing certain "prohibited weapons," which includes bombs, grenades and automatic rifles.
The restrictions do not apply to peace officers, members of the military, correctional officers and anyone specifically authorized under state and federal law to have these weapons.
HB 2666 would add a new exemption: any U.S. citizen "who carries a deadly weapon for personal protection or the protection of others." The exception also extends to those who are protecting "the state" as well as any home - whether or not the person lives there.
Some of the weapons that would be allowed under this legislation might still be banned under federal law. But Miranda warned his colleagues to consider what they are proposing.
"Even if the speaker (of the House) sent me a letter saying that I was not to carry a weapon into this House, I could do so," he said. Miranda said he could not be prosecuted "so long as I said I was there to protect myself from anyone."
We are looking to retire in a State where we can defend our vulnerable selves on our own property.
We'd certainly feel better if everyone carried than we do in the supposedly "safe" environment created for us by the benevolent government carriers who can't get to us in any real emergency no matter when it is.
Would Leigh Brackett's 1953 Sci-Fi/Fantasy novel The Sword of Rhiannon have anything to do with it?
I have a mint condition copy of The Sword of Rhiannon as it was the second Sci-Fi book I every read. First was Robert Anson Heinlein's Citizen of the Galaxy.
Those two made me a Sci-Fi fan till death... And beyond!
It's none of the gubmint's business where I go with what kind of weapon. End of story.
BTW for other readers(From http://www.sff.net/people/richard.horton/aced30.htm )
The Sword of Rhiannon is about 50,000 words. It is a reprint (apparently identical or nearly so) of "Sea Kings of Mars", published in the June 1949 issue of Thrilling Wonder Stories.
This is probably the most famous of Brackett's Martian stories, and justly so. It is different from her Eric John Stark stories (such as those paired in the Ace Double People of the Talisman/The Secret of Sinharat) in that it is predominantly set in the distant Martian past, when the planet was verdant and its seas were full. It still manages to evoke the sense of ancient mystery, and the sense of something wonderful now lost, that is so central to the other stories.
Matt Carse is a 35-year old archaeologist and thief, born on Earth but living on Mars from the age of 5. He encounters a true Martian thief in the old city of Jekkara, who shows him a great treasure, the Sword of Rhiannon, the Cursed One. Long ago Rhiannon, one of the human but very powerful Quiru, had sinned by giving forbidden technology to the serpent-like Dhuvians. For his crime he was imprisoned in a tomb while the rest of the Quiru left Mars for greater things. Carse realizes that the other thief must have found the entirety of Rhiannon's tomb, and eager for more riches he forces the other to take him there. But Carse is betrayed, and he ends up pushed into a mysterious black sphere, from which he emerges into a different Mars.
Hardly believing what has happened to him, he is soon imprisoned by the agents of Sark and their warrior princess Ywain. He and a chance-met fat thief named Boghaz are sentenced to be galley slaves on Ywain's ship. But Ywain recognizes his sword, and she and the sinister Dhuvian accompanying her soon try to extract the secret of Rhiannon's tomb from Carse. Only something unique about Carse -- his Earth heritage? or perhaps the dark voice clutching at the back of his brain? -- allows him to resist, and eventually lead a mutiny. Carse is able to lead his fellow slaves back to the Sea Kings, free rivals to the empire of Sark. But even there, he is not trusted. The lovely Emer, who consorts much with the Sky people and Sea people of Mars, senses something sinister in Carse. And when his offer to reveal the location of Rhiannon's tomb leads to disaster, only a desperate strike by Carse can save the people of Mars from the oppression of the Dhuvians. And Carse must still confront his fears of the presence lurking in his brain ...
It is really wonderful pulp Sword and Sorcery, pitch perfect, beautifully written, twistily plotted. The resolution is deeply romantic, with a shadow of true sadness. Yes, the plot itself depends on some coincidence, and some implausible action -- but so goes the form. The characters are two-dimensional, but highly colored -- if it is hard to believe in Ywain, and her combination of villainy and bravery and loveliness, or Carse's bluntness and untrained heroism and crude sexiness, still we like to make ourselves believe. And the prose -- purely within the pulp tradition, but using that tradition to produce real beauty: "Lean lithe men and women passed him in the shadowy streets, silent as casts except for the chime and whisper of the tiny bells the women wear, a sound as delicate as rain, distillate of all the sweet wickedness of the world.", or "Now, over the bones of Mars, Carse could see the living flesh that had clothed it once in splendor, the tall trees and the rich earth, and he would never forget. He looked out across the dead sea-bottom and knew that all the years of his life he would hear the booming roll of surf on the shores of a spectral ocean." Mariner stole that from us, I suppose, and Kim Stanley Robinson showed a differently beautiful Mars -- but I will always love Brackett's Mars, the purest SFnal Mars of all.
Ah, I'd heard it fell under Dept of Treasury, so that makes sense. But I was under the impression you had to get the permit from them, which would be like asking San Francisco to issue a concealed carry permit.
Does Texas have reciprocity with AZ ?
I wasn't gonna vacation there till I was sure I could take my grenades and mines......what a relief !
Yes, it does! Have a nice vacation! I just might see you there on my vacation in the spring, too!
Grenades are WONDERUFL for defense. How else can you get 100 armed people to stay at least 50 meters away from you ?
Kewl !......See ya there !
Rhiannon is a Welsh name and used by Leigh Brackett and others. My horse is named that so I used her name since it is not so common. I am a SCIFI fan and am a regular at the Baen website.
it's just a taxable transfer and they take their sweet time about it. If you aren't 100% squeaky clean, they send a gestapo agent out to interview you before they issue the tax stamp for the transfer paperwork.
It's not a focused measure though. I dunno, it's really hard to get the public to go along with fragment grenades. It's probably best to limit things to firearms. Grenades are more ordnance anyway.
Instilling moral values in children is a conservative belief. Parental responsibility for raising their children is also a conservative belief. There is nothing "inherently contradictory" about those two statements.
I'm not going to bother to respond to your other statements.
Frankly, I don't appreciate getting badgered so please stop posting to me on this topic.
Can you even get grenades?
Why not ? It IS still illegal to harm someone with these tools, correct ? so how does it burden a nutjob bent on murder to have it illegal to carry, vs the burden imposed on those who would stop said nutjob if need be ???
I think that is what you hire police for. I think when you are around hundreds of kids, in a building devoted to their education and well-being, certain exceptions have to be made about who and what is allowed in the building.
those same police that maintain a perimeter and stand by, protecting themselves from harm, while the rampage continues ??? as in columbine.
Or those same cops, that voluntarily disarm before going into a school, on 'official' business or not ???
Im sure that there are some educators that have the whole SHTF scenario played out in their minds, about how to get to their guns, locked away in the car, off property, to stop an assault, in the victim disarmament zones known as 'schools' ...
Anyone know CrackingHam? Hasnt responded to his own post yet and is a newbie. By the stupid title of the article im liable to think troll.
I didn't post and run from anything. I stand by what I said. I intended to say nothing else on this forum because frankly the responses come accross as demeaning and less then constructive.
You and others continue going back to the example of one incident. What you and others who continuously cite Columbine conveiniently leave out is that there was an armed security guard posted within the school and that he exchanged fire with the two students before any SWAT arrived. But because they used assault weapons the guard was overwhelmed with fire, ran out of ammo, and was not able to kill them. So your argument that a lone teacher with a small to medium caliber concealed pistol would probably have stopped two assault weapons-armed students is not really tenable in my view.
And you and others also cite the police response. Well I happen TO AGREE THAT THE COLUMBINE P.D. DID NOT RESPOND VIGOROUSLY ENOUGH. But again you also conveiniently leave out the fact that the SWAT had gotten word that the place was rigged to blow. So frankly I think their hesitation, if certainly NOT EXCUSABLE, is understandable. And the notion that I suggested in any way that a person is not responsible for themselves or not responsible for self-defense, is just plain daft.
I never knew any police "voluntarily disarmed" before entering a school. Now that is something that could be changed. I would suggest stationing a policeman at every school with a certain attendance or higher. That's my opinion. A policeman wears body armor, has a radio for instant communication, and is thoroughly trained in firing small arms. He also acts as a deterrent. And I never said a teacher couldn't keep a gun in their car.
If you want to argue, intellegently and respectfully, then by all means please do, but don't misrepresent what I say, dimiss my arguments as having "serious problems," and then complain when I leave the thread because I am being ridiculed for not falling into lock-step with you.
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