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Private patrols or vigilantes?
Fox11AZ.com ^ | March 2, 2005 | Sybil Hoffman

Posted on 03/02/2005 2:09:23 PM PST by WindOracle

Some Arizona residents aren't waiting for the president or Congress to curb illegal immigration. Instead, they're arming themselves, creating so-called private citizen patrols.

Others refer to them as vigilantes.

Whatever you call them, more and more are forming in border towns like Sierra Vista and Douglas where those citizen patrols aren't only toting guns, they're recruiting new members.

They're even using sophisticated technology in their hunt for border crossers.

For example, an unmanned plane offers a bird's-eye view of the border, including group after group of illegal immigrants sneaking across the border.

The most popular smuggling route in the country cuts right through Southern Arizona.

The situation is becoming so bad that people like Glenn Spencer are fighting back by starting so-called watchdog groups.

Spencer refers to his group as the American Border Patrol. The nonprofit group uses a plan and other technology to highlight the problem.

"Our aircraft is the smallest aircraft we know of that has a thermal camera," he said.

The thermal camera enables Spencer and his group to show the prevalence of illegal immigration, especially at night.

"And we're sending this video out over the Internet," he said.

One of Spencer's goals is to convince Americans to pressure the federal government to do more to secure the border.

Other civilians are also patrolling the border, but for a different reason. They say it's to protect ranchers and property.

Some say they aren't so happy about it.

"On my property, I have a lot of illegals coming through," said Rick Veal, a border resident. "I have a lot of drug runners coming through and I got a lot of armed Americans coming through."

Armed Americans that Veal refers to as vigilantes.

"It's a war zone," he said.

What's worse is that it's not always clear who is on the side of the law.

"You don't know who you're going to encounter," he said.

Chris Simcox, founder of a grassroots patrol called Civil Homeland Defense, said "volunteers can arm themselves in whatever way they feel is necessary and legal."

Simcox and his group often encounter scenes like piles of clothing and water bottles -- all discarded as illegal immigrants were making their way into the United States.

"This whole hillside you wouldn't believe it. It looks just like this. I mean for acres and acres and acres," Simcox said. "We're going to do the job the president won't do."

Simcox and others have big plans.

They want to seal a 40-mile stretch of the border for the month this spring. To make it happen, they're recruiting volunteers nationwide.

"We're putting together our own border patrol," he said.


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: aliens; bayoblalert; bayurrfulloit; border; borderpatrol; bordersecurity; glennspencer; illegal; immigrant; vigilantism
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1 posted on 03/02/2005 2:09:23 PM PST by WindOracle
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To: WindOracle

Vigilantiism is what happens when the forces of law and order are clearly outmatched and law abiding people have to face the fact that they are on their own.


2 posted on 03/02/2005 2:10:45 PM PST by Sam the Sham
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To: WindOracle

>>>>"It's a war zone," he said.

Yes it is.

Bump to the vigilantis.


3 posted on 03/02/2005 2:15:53 PM PST by Calpernia (Breederville.com)
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To: WindOracle

If that was your property they were trespassing on, would you describe yourself as a vigilante?
Put another way, if they boy next door puts a baseball through your window and you scold him for it, does that make you a vigilante?


4 posted on 03/02/2005 2:17:58 PM PST by henderson field
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To: Sam the Sham

I don't know whether they're outmatched or if it's merely a lack of will on the part of those in authority over those forces. I know that citizens NEED to protect themsleves and their propery because the government has made it all too clear that it WON'T.


5 posted on 03/02/2005 2:18:07 PM PST by Emmett McCarthy
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To: Sam the Sham
I'm waiting for the first shot to be fired. The all hell will break loose.
6 posted on 03/02/2005 2:21:08 PM PST by Mulch (tm)
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To: WindOracle

The Fools in DC had better wake up.

A terror attack from over that border will bring down the government.


7 posted on 03/02/2005 2:21:24 PM PST by the gillman@blacklagoon.com
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To: Sam the Sham

I agree. When something wrong is happening right in front of my face, I feel it's wrong not to do something about it. When the authorities don't respond to illegal acts, I believe they don't deserve to prevent us from trying to fix it ourselves. If I have acres near the border, and illegals are coming through (especially smuggling drugs), I should have the right to keep them off my property. That's partly why we have the 2nd amendment.


8 posted on 03/02/2005 2:24:59 PM PST by One Proud Son
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To: WindOracle

I think they're vigilantes only if they physically confront the illegals. Patroling and alerting the proper authorities is fine.

Although if illegals are crossing through people's private property, I think homeowners/landowners should be able to do more than just be part of a watchdog group.


9 posted on 03/02/2005 2:31:05 PM PST by k2blader (It is neither compassionate nor conservative to support the expansion of socialism.)
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To: the gillman@blacklagoon.com

A terror attack from that border will bring Martial Law to the U.S.

I still can't believe that our govt can't stop this flow of illegals- potential terrorists. What the heck are they thinking?


10 posted on 03/02/2005 2:36:12 PM PST by panaxanax
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To: panaxanax

A hamfisted act of martial law would get them in even worse trouble.

It's not us citizens they're supposed to be stopping.


11 posted on 03/02/2005 3:04:22 PM PST by the gillman@blacklagoon.com
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To: panaxanax
A terror attack from that border will bring Martial Law to the U.S.

I still can't believe that our govt can't stop this flow of illegals- potential terrorists. What the heck are they thinking? Your first sentence answered your question.

12 posted on 03/02/2005 3:26:10 PM PST by supercat (For Florida officials to be free of the Albatross, they should let it fly away.)
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To: panaxanax
Have you ever wondered why no responsible person has seriously proposed that we can seal our borders from illegal laborers?

In the 82 mile San Diego sector border we have double fences, patrol roads, floodlights, underground motion sensors, guard towers, infrared surveillance cameras, unmanned aerial surveillance vehicles, all terrain vehicles, helicopters, patrol roads, horse patrols and one of the highest concentration of guards. Still they come by the thousands every year.

The Mexican border averages five guards per mile, and still hundreds of thousands cross every year. Some call it an "open border". If five per mile doesn't work how many would you estimate it would take to stop all of them? Ten per mile? Twenty? Forty?

The cost per guard is $150,000 per year. At just ten per mile that's $1,500,000 per mile per year.

Since there are over 100,000 miles of border around the U.S., that means we would need one million border guards at an annual cost of $150,000,000,000. Even if you could find one million people willing to walk the deserts and mountains, the illegals would still get through.

That's a very high price to pay just to prevent the forty million Americans we have aborted from being replaced.

13 posted on 03/02/2005 3:51:19 PM PST by bayourod (Unless we get over 40% of the Hispanic vote in 2008, President Hillary will take all your guns away.)
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To: Mulch
All it'll take is the first false-imprisonment of an American citizen whom the vigilantes had charged with "walking down the public street with brown skin."
14 posted on 03/02/2005 3:56:56 PM PST by Cultural Jihad
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To: Sam the Sham
...when the forces of law and order are clearly outmatched ..."

Law enforcement, (ie..the gubmint) does not give a rat's @$$.

15 posted on 03/02/2005 4:02:02 PM PST by semaj ("....by their fruit you will know them.")
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To: bayourod
"That's a very high price to pay just to prevent the forty million Americans we have aborted from being replaced."

Ouch!

16 posted on 03/02/2005 4:05:00 PM PST by semaj ("....by their fruit you will know them.")
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To: bayourod; panaxanax
In the 82 mile San Diego sector border we have double fences, patrol roads, floodlights, underground motion sensors, guard towers, infrared surveillance cameras, unmanned aerial surveillance vehicles, all terrain vehicles, helicopters, patrol roads, horse patrols and one of the highest concentration of guards. Still they come by the thousands every year.

San Diego Sector now gets between 2-3 thousand illegals a month instead of 10-30 thousand.

The Mexican border averages five guards per mile,

This isn't true and you have been told this over and over again yet you still repeat it.

If five per mile doesn't work how many would you estimate it would take to stop all of them? Ten per mile? Twenty? Forty?

Another falsehood

The cost per guard is $150,000 per year. At just ten per mile that's $1,500,000 per mile per year.

This isn't true either.

17 posted on 03/02/2005 4:13:49 PM PST by Ajnin (I)
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To: Ajnin
"This isn't true and you have been told this over and over again yet you still repeat it. "

The facts I stated are correct.

For example the Mexican border is 1900 miles long and has 1200 Border Patrol Agents assigned to it. Do the math. That averages over five per mile.

The CBP FY 2006 (that y'all bitch about) contains $36.9 million for the addition of 210 Border Patrol Agents. Do the math, that comes out to over $175,000 per border guard.

All the facts can be verified at http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/home.xml

Apparently you have been getting your information from less than reputable sources.

18 posted on 03/02/2005 4:45:33 PM PST by bayourod (Unless we get over 40% of the Hispanic vote in 2008, President Hillary will take all your guns away.)
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To: bayourod

1200 border guards shoul read 10,200.


19 posted on 03/02/2005 4:47:27 PM PST by bayourod (Unless we get over 40% of the Hispanic vote in 2008, President Hillary will take all your guns away.)
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To: bayourod

You are wrong. There not 10,000 Border Patrol Agents Patrolling the Mexican border. There are a combined total of 10,000 agents on the Canadian and Mexican borders working three shifts. That is in addition to all the ancillary activities such as management, BORSTAR, SRT, Intelligence, Prosecutiuons, Seizures, etc. There are not five agents per mile patrolling the border.


20 posted on 03/02/2005 5:05:35 PM PST by Ajnin (I)
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