Posted on 02/26/2005 10:55:20 AM PST by nickcarraway
February 26, 2005 -- ROME — Does a stone carving in one of Rome's biggest cathedrals know whether Pope John Paul II will survive his latest health crisis? The monument to Pope Sylvester II, who ruled the Catholic Church 1,000 years ago, is said to moisten when the death of a pontiff is imminent.
But yesterday, a priest touched the carving in Rome's Basilica of St. John Lateran and confirmed it was dry — good news for the pope, who had windpipe surgery Thursday after being rushed to the hospital with breathing problems.
In the sacristy of St. John Lateran, the pope's "second cathedral" for his role as bishop of Rome, two elderly Italian nuns in gray habits said the monument's prophesying power was well documented.
(Excerpt) Read more at nypost.com ...
What? Corn Flakes not idolatry??? I guess I have to modify my raisinbrangelization schtick!
My friend, somethings are better left unsaid. Or in this case, unposted.
I have to agree, in part, with the heretics on this one... no one should take this kind of thing seriously. Thankfully I doubt very many do.
That's because it is!
The First and Second Commandments are in the Vulgate (Catholic), the Douay-Rheims (Catholic) and King James versions. But those are missing in Matthew 19 (where a partial list of Commandments is paraphrased).
http://bible.gospelcom.net/versions/
...not that it matters to most, who only believe what is attributed to Paul and do not want believe much (if anything) else in the bibles. Most people especially reject that which Jesus was reported to have studied exclusively, so they do not "follow" or "believe in" him, either.
The "inner light" mystic and spiritual religions from Noah's time and before have pretty much taken over again due to the continuing hard work of the romanticist pagan special interests of the ages. They have always infiltrated every church and continue to do so.
please site where you found this definition... one will do
just out of curiosity, how do you know it isn't GOD that makes it moist???
I see folks bowing down to shrines to some dead guy/gal or another on TV all the time. I wonder where, if they're Christians, they get the idea this is the thing to do?
Here are links to three versions of the Ten Commandments, if you're interested.
Vulgata
http://bible.gospelcom.net/passage/?book_id=2&chapter=20&version=4
Douay-Rheims
http://bible.gospelcom.net/passage/?book_id=2&chapter=20&version=63
King James
http://bible.gospelcom.net/passage/?book_id=2&chapter=20&version=9
What channel?
And hope none are Muslims ;-)
Any news channel, you take your pick. Bunch of people bowing down around some shrine in Fatima. Or thousands bowing down in front of some statue in Mexico of Our Lady of Guadalupe. So many people rub or kiss the feet for "good luck", the toes begin to wear off the statues.
The Church should have stopped this type of behavior long ago. It can only be viewed to condone it at this point. Thankfully many in the Church don't participate in these pagan rituals.
It takes omniscience for a dead Saint to hear all the prayers simultaneously directed to them. Omniscience's is an attribute of Diety! (I may find out that I should have been praying to these folks when I get to heaven, but praying to God should be enough until then). Asking a fellow, alive believer to pray for you is different in my mind; no omniscience required.
Sigh. Let's start with this simple question. Are those humans in heaven dead or alive?
My friend, you ask excellent questions.
I would say the dead believers are alive. And I would say that they are with the Lord Jesus.
Mat 22:29-32 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.
30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.
31 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,
32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.
I would point out the words "are as the angels of God in heaven...". We do not become angels, we just gain access to their heavenly realm. With eternal life, we no longer need to perpetuate ourselves through marriage. Also angels are not omniscient, otherwise Satan would destroy every one of us.
2Cr 5:6-8
6 Therefore [we are] always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:)
8 We are confident, [I say], and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
Ok.
Are the dead believers, who are alive, in the Body of Christ?
I think it's a pretty good definition, a common sense and succinct way to phrase the idea in modern terms. What about it do you disagree with? Do you have a different definition of idolatry? If so, what is it? Is there any example of any behavior that would constitute idolatry under the definition I stated, and idolatry under your different definition?
Another good question.
I always thought of the Body of Christ being the church on earth. The body of believers within the church. The believers in heaven are face to face with Jesus Christ.
Dead believers are in a different category, no longer needing to walk by faith as Christians on earth must.
2 Cr 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:)
1Cr 13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
Face to face, indeed. But, are they not still a part of His Body? By which I mean, to experencing the union that we see through that dark glass.
Dead believers are in a different category, no longer needing to walk by faith as Christians on earth must.
If you believe, as I think that you do, that Jesus intercedes with the Father, and if "dead believers" (can we say "fully alive Saints") are in face to face union with Him, why could they not also intercede for us?
They would need to be able to receive prayers from innumerable believers simultaneously. The angel that went to Daniel could not come to him for 21 days because he was battling with the Prince of Persia. I am of the opinion that the believers in heaven are similarly still subject to time constraints. We do not acquire divine attributes when we get to heaven.
Only God is outside of time, capable of receiving the prayers of millions of believers simultaneously. Of course Jesus Christ is God, ever making intercession for us at the right hand of the Father. Jesus should be enough, being that He is omniscient, omnipresent and omnipotent. Divine attributes that enable Him to handle all of our needs.
I would add that we are engaged in a spiritual battle here on earth, because Satan is the Prince of this World. I mention this because our fellow believers on earth are currently participating in the battle with us, thus relevant to prayer requests. The believers in heaven are no longer subject to Satan's rule, and are therefore no longer engaged in the battle until Christ's second coming.
But I'd take a close look at the prophecys of St. Malichy.
"St. Malachy O'Morgair (1095?-1148)
Maelmhaedhoc O’Morgair (Latin form: Malachy) was born in Armagh, Ireland in 1094. In 1148, he died in the arms of St. Bernard of Clairvaux, his biographer.
St. Malachy was reported to have possessed the powers of levitation, healing, and clairvoyance. While on his way to the Vatican to assume the post of papal legate for Ireland, he fell into trance and saw a line of papal reigns stretching from the successor to Innocent II and extending through centuries to the last of the line, identified as Peter of Rome.
Malachy assigned short descriptions in Latin to each pope when he committed his vision to paper. These mottoes usually refer to a family name, birthplace, coat-of-arms, or office held before election to the papacy. Some of the phrases are multiple prophecies, written with ingenious word play.
For example, Pius II, who reigned for only 26 days in 1503, was aptly described as "De Parvo Homine" (from a little man). His family name was Piccolomini, Italian for "little man."
Sometimes the personal history of the pope plays a part in the motto given by Malachy. Clement XIII (1758-69), who had conenctions with the government of the Italian state of Umbria and whose emblem was a rose, was called by Malachy Rosa Umbriae, the "Rose of Umbria."
The passage of time has proved doubters of St. Malachy wrong, for his prophecies have turned out to be amazingly accurate. He even prophesied the precise date of his own death, and got it right. The prophecies concern the papacy, starting with Pope Celestine II in 1143. In all, 112 popes and their characteristics are listed from 1143 to the "end of the world."
Here are descriptions of the final popes according to Malachy: Pastor et Nauta/Shepherd and Navigator: John XXIII (1958 -1963), patriarch of Venice (a city full of sailors) led his flock to a modernization of the Church through the Ecumenical Council. John chose two symbols for this Council -- a cross and a ship.
Flors Florum/Flower of Flowers: Paul VI (1963-1978) had a coat-of-arms depicting three fleurs-de-lis.
De Medietate Lunae/From the Half Moon: John Paul I (1978-1978) had the given name of Albino Luciani or "white light." Half-way into his short reign, a lunar eclipse occurred.
De Labore Solis/From the Toil of the Sun [Labore could also be Effort, Distress, Suffering, Trouble, leading to quite a few variations. The preceding is the usual translation.]: John Paul II was born during the solar eclipse of May 18, 1920.
De Gloria Olivae/From the Glory of the Olives: The Order of Saint Benedict has claimed that this pope will come from their ranks. Saint Benedict himself prophesied that before the end of the world his Order, known also as the Olivetans, will triumphantly lead the Catholic Church in its fight against evil.
Petrus Romanus/Peter of Rome: The Final Pope? "In the final persecution of the Holy Roman Church there will reign Peter the Roman, who will feed his flock among many tribulations, after which the seven-hilled city will be destroyed and the dreadful Judge will judge the people."
So it looks like there are only two to go. Obviously, I recommend the Cardinals select the youngest and healthiest from their ranks who has the least number of bad habits, a Cardinal with low cholesterol and genetic longevity, preferably one without the monk's disease - that legendary fondness for a boy's round bottom, for the duty of De Gloria Olivae.
then you ask if I have a better definition???
YES I DO... it's in EVERY DICTIONARY... it is "IDOL WORSHIP!!!"
look up WORSHIP in ANY dictionary... this AIN'T IT!!!
now you are just being intellectually dishonest and i tire of it, so, thanks for playing and have a nice day.
I wasn't aware that phrasing something in my own words was a crime or an error. Yes I put together that wording on my own. No, there is not a speck of originality in the thought or the idea. Satisfied? The idea stands - and if you hadn't noticed, everyone on this thread but you agrees.
I saw you coming a mile away. You long ago gave up the prospect of having an honest discussion when you started to attack me rather than discussing the idea. What do you think, that you're the first troll ever to log onto FR?
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