Boeing's 747 Large Cargo Freighter Development on Plan

Boeing.com ^ | Feb. 22, 2005 | Staff

[Paleo Conservative]

SEATTLE, Feb. 22, 2005 -- Boeing [NYSE: BA] today said development of the 747 Large Cargo Freighter is proceeding according to plan and the modified freighters will be ready to support final assembly of the first Boeing 787 Dreamliners in 2007.

"We have a top-notch team of engineers working to design what will be one of the most unique airplanes flying," said 787 Vice President of Manufacturing and Quality Scott Strode. "This kind of modification is an engineer's dream. It's an extremely challenging project, and it's essential to the success of the Dreamliner."

Boeing announced last week the critical "swing zone" of the freighter, the part of the Large Cargo Freighter's aft fuselage that opens to allow loading and unloading of the 787's large composite structures, is being designed in partnership with Gamesa Aeronautica of Spain. Gamesa is the first Spanish supplier supporting the Dreamliner program.

Boeing also said today that engineers from Boeing Rocketdyne, located in Canoga Park, Calif., are assisting its structural design team in Everett, Wash., with changes to the Large Cargo Freighter's cockpit area, the only part of the airplane that will be pressurized. Strode said the work is focused on modifications to the upper and lower decks, and relocation of several systems in the forward section of the aircraft.

Engineers at the Boeing Design Center in Moscow are helping design the freighter's enlarged upper fuselage and rear fuselage, as well as the main cargo deck floor and "transition zone" that marries the new structure to the existing airplane structure. The expanded girth of the Large Cargo Freighter will hold three times the cargo by volume of the 747-400 freighters flying today.

The design supplier for the pressure bulkhead that joins the cockpit area to the fuselage will be named after contracts are finalized. No design changes are necessary to the freighter's wings, and Boeing engineers will extend the airplane's vertical fin by five feet to aid the pilots' control during flight.

The Large Cargo Freighter team achieved firm configuration of the airplane in October. Once the detailed design work is completed, the components will largely be provided by current 747 suppliers, Strode said. Those parts will then be shipped to Taipei, where the airplanes will be modified by Evergreen Aviation Technologies Corporation (EGAT), a joint venture between EVA Air and General Electric, and part of Taiwan 's Evergreen Group.

Systems updates will be provided by the existing 747 suppliers.

Boeing has decided the airplane will remain without a livery until an operator for the airplanes is chosen later this year. "We know Boeing will not operate these airplanes," Strode said. "We are talking with a number of interested parties, and we expect that branding of the airplane will be part of the negotiation process."

Two Large Cargo Freighters will be needed to support initial 787 production. Two 747-400s that will be converted to the new configuration were purchased by Boeing last year. Boeing continues looking for a third airplane that will enter service later. Certification of the first Large Cargo Freighter will occur in 2006, with the airplane returning to service in 2007 to support final assembly of the first Dreamliners.

The 787 is an all-new family of mid-sized airplanes that will provide exceptional fuel efficiencies for airlines and superior comfort for passengers. It is to enter service in 2008. Boeing has 191 announced firm orders and commitments for the 787 from 15 airlines.

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[Prophet in the wilderness]

Just the 2 or 3 " SPECIAL " freighter that Boeing and some other companies are cooperating in building that new special freighter.
As far as I can see, only the nose section, about 50 feet of the nose section, and tail of the 747 will be used in this freighter, the middle and " AFT SWING SECTION " of the plane will be designed in Russia and by other companies. Lets just hope Boeing will go ahead with their plans and build the new version of the 747 Advanced passenger and freighter planes, their decision will be made later this spring or early summer.

[Prophet in the wilderness]

It could be, that Boeing could be getting their financial house in order to go full ahead with the development of the 787 program and hopefully a go ahead with the new 747 advanced versions.

[Prophet in the wilderness]

But the Boeing 747 is a PROVEN design and a tuff workhorse that has lasted for 35 year.
The Boeing 747 , One great airframe design.

[libstripper]

It's also not competing with Airbus because all of the plane, other than the cockpit, is unpressurized. Absolutely lethal for the passengers if it were a pasenger aircraft.

[libstripper]

Not that surprising. The Russians have designed and built and build some REALLY HUGE, good cargo carriers.

[Tribune7]

Yes, these are cargo aircraft no passenger aircraft.

It's been said that the most successful use of the A380 will be in cargo. Could this jumbo compete there?

[roaddog727]

Cool beans!

[RayChuang88]

if Boeing were to see a interest and demand for the modified 747 - 400 , it would be only a guess that Boeing would see a niche market for a modified 747 - 400 freighter to compete with the A 380 freighter.

Actually, the 747-400 Large Cargo Freighter could have more demand than people think. There are a lot of outsized cargo that needs to be shipped around the world regularly (which explains why the Ukrainians are making a lot of money lending out their fleet of Antonov An-124's to carry such cargo all the time) and the 747-400 LCF could do quite well serving this market. In fact, the 747-400 LCF could end up being in Airbus service because Airbus will need such a plane to ship in larger high-bypass engines for the A350 and A380 programs! (That is unless Airbus decides to build a second-generation Super Transporter based on the A340-300 airframe but with the larger A340-500 wing.)

[Prophet in the wilderness]

Did you notice that the article said that they will use the current wing design for this modified 747 - 400 LCF ?
The classic 747 wing design is a really robust design , however, for economical and efficiency reasons, ( if Boeing has the desire to spend BILLIONS to re design the current 747 wing ) Boeing would have to re design the 747 wing in relation to the triple 777 wing design.
We don't really know what " Tricks up their ( Boeing ) sleeves " that they may have, that Boeing is going to propose in the new 747 Advanced wing design or over all airframe design for the new 747.
They did say that they are going to " MODIFIY " the current wing, but, not sure if that means " TWEAKING " the wing, or a total " RE DESIGN " of the wing.
If we have any engineers here on FR that have some experience in the area of Carbon Composites, how much more can Boeing and their engineers reduce the weight on the 747 Advanced in the use of composite materials ?
One are that they could reduce the weight of the aircraft ( unless they have already done this ) is the use of composite material on the speed breaks on the wings on the 747 ?
The speed breaks on the wings are only used to slow the plane down after it touches down on the runway.
Correct me if I am wrong on this, the speed breaks are not ( structural significant ) as in relation to the rest of the plane .
Can they use composites for the speed breaks ? instead on aluminum ? or do they already use fiberglass in their speed breaks on the wings on the 747 ?
They already use fiberglass for their ( Ball - screw jacks covers ( shrouds ) that cover the ball & screw jacks that drive the flaps on the 747.
Can they use carbon composites on the ailerons ?
Flaps ?
On parts of the tail of the plane ? like the rudder ? the elevators ? Outer surface skins on the tail ?
Is it possible for Boeing to use carbon composites on the upper deck outer surface skin ( Flight deck, upper first class area " THE FAMOUS 747 HUMP " area ) instead of aluminum ?
Or is there a conflict problem in using aluminum and composites between 2 surface joints, and the conflict of expansion and contraction in relation between Carbon composites and aluminum ?
Let hope that Boeing will decide to build the next generation of the 747 Advanced and WOW and DAZZLE us in the great product that they finally come up with in their new designs of the new 747.
The 747 will always be in the heart of many people " The Queen of the skies "

[longtermmemmory]

actually this could revolutionize air cargo the way ship cargo containers revolutionized shipping.

Imagine being able to load the plane without needing to have the plane there!

[longtermmemmory]

Yet in response, Airbus will use the EU to apply POLITICAL pressure to sell their products.

"Buy airbus, we are not americans."

[Prophet in the wilderness]

I hope Poland says to Airbus " Go take a hike, we like Boeing Aircraft better " lol

[AGreatPer]

Last time I flew an Airbus (JetBlue) from NY to FLA I got hung up in line at the door. I could see into the cockpit and it is scary when you don't see the normal steering wheel kind of thing. There is a wheel type of aparatus to the left of the left pilot. It looks freeky.

[longtermmemmory]

Airbus is playing bookkeeping hardball. Forgivng past debt in exchange for future purchases. Airbus has two products. One is just the airplanes, the other is making jobs to justify the existence of the french run consortium. If not enough "made" jobs are spread around, then not as much political support will exist.

I wonder if Airbus will make the sale by promising to put a few jobs in poland.

[Prophet in the wilderness]

There are 2 websights you can go to see pictures of the airbus planes, www.Airliners.net and www.Flightlevel350.com
What you might have saw in the flightdeck were the pilots sit in the airbus, was the JOY STICK control device they put in the AIRBUSES for the pilots to fly the planes.
I feel safer with the old YOKE AND STICK control on the airplane.
I don't' blame you for not wanting to fly in a AIRBUS.
I once flew on a AIRBUS from Detroit.
While the passengers were boarding ( I was seated already in my seat ) and when the people walked down the aisle of the ( CHEAP BUILT AIRBUS ) plane, I could feel the floor move up and down, and buckle.
Yes, that is true, ex specially if a large heavy man were to pass you in the aisle , you could feel the floor of the AIRBUS airplane bucking up and down, and I thought ? this ain't right ? the floor should be solid, this airbus plane is built cheap.
I never saw that on a Boeing aircraft.

[Prophet in the wilderness]

Forgiving past debt ? I wonder how long the EU government can afford to keep giving money to a company that just give money away ? and on the track of going bankrupt ?
Ahhhhh yes, the EU, mostly in % 10 or 11 unemployment, won't be long now, when they are in a total economic collapse and will come crying to the USA to bail their sorry butts out of hot water ( AGAIN !! )
How long can a company stay in business ? when they keep giving away their products, and forgiving debt ?
Not every long if the government that they rely on is in bankrupt also.
No wonder the EU's are so Envious, Jealous, and hateful towards the USA.

[Prophet in the wilderness]

I still hope,,, POLAND says " AIRBUS and FRANCE ? Go take a hike, we like Boeings better "

[brooklin]

Thanks for the heads up.

[Paleo Conservative]

Did you notice that the article said that they will use the current wing design for this modified 747 - 400 LCF ? The classic 747 wing design is a really robust design , however, for economical and efficiency reasons, ( if Boeing has the desire to spend BILLIONS to re design the current 747 wing ) Boeing would have to re design the 747 wing in relation to the triple 777 wing design. We don't really know what " Tricks up their ( Boeing ) sleeves " that they may have, that Boeing is going to propose in the new 747 Advanced wing design or over all airframe design for the new 747. They did say that they are going to " MODIFIY " the current wing, but, not sure if that means " TWEAKING " the wing, or a total " RE DESIGN " of the wing.

I remembr reading about a proposed upgrade of the 747 wing in a proposed 747-800 in which the skin would be shaped to create a super critical wing like the 787, 777, 767, and 757., but with the ability to connect to existing structures. This design would allow existing structural systems for which the tooling is paid for to remain in the design while increasing the thickness of the wing. The thicker wing would be super critical and be able to hold more fuel. Supposedly the crusing speed would be Mach .87.