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To: Prophet in the wilderness; RayChuang88; COEXERJ145
Did you notice that the article said that they will use the current wing design for this modified 747 - 400 LCF ? The classic 747 wing design is a really robust design , however, for economical and efficiency reasons, ( if Boeing has the desire to spend BILLIONS to re design the current 747 wing ) Boeing would have to re design the 747 wing in relation to the triple 777 wing design. We don't really know what " Tricks up their ( Boeing ) sleeves " that they may have, that Boeing is going to propose in the new 747 Advanced wing design or over all airframe design for the new 747. They did say that they are going to " MODIFIY " the current wing, but, not sure if that means " TWEAKING " the wing, or a total " RE DESIGN " of the wing.

I remembr reading about a proposed upgrade of the 747 wing in a proposed 747-800 in which the skin would be shaped to create a super critical wing like the 787, 777, 767, and 757., but with the ability to connect to existing structures. This design would allow existing structural systems for which the tooling is paid for to remain in the design while increasing the thickness of the wing. The thicker wing would be super critical and be able to hold more fuel. Supposedly the crusing speed would be Mach .87.

60 posted on 02/26/2005 7:02:47 PM PST by Paleo Conservative (Hey! Hey! Ho! Ho! Andrew Heyward's got to go!)
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To: Paleo Conservative
remembr reading about a proposed upgrade of the 747 wing in a proposed 747-800 in which the skin would be shaped to create a super critical wing like the 787, 777, 767, and 757., but with the ability to connect to existing structures.

I believe that was part of the 747-500 and 747-600 proposals of the late 1990's. If Boeing does go ahead with the 747 Advanced it's likely we may see a new wing for the plane based on the 747-500 proposal in a slightly stretched 747-400 fuselage, and of course the jet engines will be derivatives of the Rolls-Royce Trent 1000 and General Electric GENX engines now being developed for the 787. Interestingly enough, there are a number of very significant airlines that have expressed interest in the 747 Advanced, which may end up being designated 747-700 in final production form. British Airways, Japan Airlines, All-Nippon Airways, Cathay Pacific Airways and QANTAS have expressed serious interest in the 747 Advanced, mostly because 1) it maintains as much compatibility with the current 747-400 as possible and 2) the range of the 747 Advanced will be over 8,000 nautical miles, which means very long range transoceanic flights can be done year-round.

71 posted on 02/26/2005 8:41:59 PM PST by RayChuang88
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To: Paleo Conservative
Are the speed breaks, the ailerons, and flaps on the current 747 wing made out of light weight aluminum alloys or can they incorporate more composites in the speed breaks, ailerons, and flaps ?
Can they use composites on the upper outer surface skins of the ( FAMOUS 747 HUMP ) were the flight deck is and upper the first class area ? or is there a problem with mating aluminum and composites at 2 edges , and problems with the different frequencies of expansion and contraction between aluminum and composites ?
74 posted on 02/27/2005 3:37:01 AM PST by Prophet in the wilderness (PSALM 53 : 1 The ( FOOL ) hath said in his heart , There is no GOD .)
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To: Paleo Conservative
Hi Paleo,
Yes you are correct about them ( Boeing ) re contouring the current 747 wing ( that is ? how many costumers are interested in the new 747 Advanced, and are willing to buy it, how committed they are to this project, and how willing they are to spend the BILLIONS to do it, ) to get a super critical wing like the 878 , 777, 767, and a thicker wing will allow for more fuel capacity , hence, more range and load capacity
I think they are going to still use the same torsion box of the current 747 wing design ( the torsion box is the main structure of the wing , the 747 wing has spars and ribs in the wing - the torsion box has 3 main spars, 2 wing spars going all the way to the wing tip, and the middle spar going to the outboard engine pylon ).
Like you said, they are going to re contour the skin, and re engineer the flaps, and ailerons, and I can only guess use more carbon composite materials in the wing and airframe.
They will also get rid of the triple slotted flap and in some way make it a double or single slot flap.
At the rear leading edge of the flaps, instead of the shape coming to a point like a arrow, they are planning to use a new design to save on fuel and reduce wind drag and re contour the rear leading edge of the flaps like a wedge ( not a blunt wedge shape, but, a wedge shape on a slight angle ).
But more fuel capacity would mean more over all weight to the airframe and engines, ( not that more fuel capacity is bad, if you can lower the weight of the airframe ) there are some weight penalties involved in aircraft design.
The best approach would have to be a design strategy to bring down the over all weight of the plane , hence, more range, great load capacity ( more passengers or freight that can be moved ) , lower fuel cost and operating cost.
Yes, they are probably going to make the wings hold more fuel because of the thicker wing, but, look for other areas in the airframe to hold more fuel.
So, all in all, they will have to find other areas were they can reduce the weight of the airframe and engines, make the plane and engines more aerodynamic, and efficient.
The lighter and aerodynamic you can make a airplane, car, truck, the more range it will have, less cost in fuel, and more load it can carry.
75 posted on 02/28/2005 2:25:20 PM PST by Prophet in the wilderness (PSALM 53 : 1 The ( FOOL ) hath said in his heart , There is no GOD .)
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