Posted on 02/21/2005 8:48:09 AM PST by Terridan
Can someone please tell me how anyone can just get through security at an installation, where the Navy has their military warship and submarine operations, building and retrofit operations, future "Stealth" building operations, with a gun, shoot people in the facility and get out again?
We are unclear as to if one person was killed, two wounded, as the newsmedia has only reported two wounded. Family and friends who work there say one dead. God bless them all.
ping
http://www.thejacksonchannel.com/news/4216193/detail.html
2 Shot At Northrop Grumman In Pascagoula
POSTED: 8:26 am CST February 21, 2005
UPDATED: 8:34 am CST February 21, 2005
PASCAGOULA, Miss. -- Pascagoula police responded Monday to a shooting during a shift change at Northrop Grumman Ships Systems shipyard.
Pascagoula Detective Sgt. Jeff Barnes said an employee arrived at work and "was disgruntled for some reason."
Barnes said the unidentified man shot two people who were taken to Singing River Hospital in Ocean Springs. Hospital officials said the victims are listed in critical condition.
The names of the victims were not released.
Barnes said the shooter was in custody.
Barnes said the man tried to leave the shipyard but was detained by Northrop employees until police arrived.
Northrop Grumman Ship Systems is Mississippi's largest private employer, with more than 12,000 workers.
Northrop Grumman has shipbuilding facilities in Pascagoula, New Orleans and Gulfport and builds vessels for the Navy and the Coast Guard.
It is tighter, but as a former employee of this company, I can tell you that they check people in at the gate, but do not do full searches and the like.
Certain areas are indeed well protected, the entire facility is not as a rule.
Although it has been several years since I have been on board. This facility has changed hands over the past few years.
Most workplaces like this do not have security like at the airport. They're more worried about people walking out with tools and tech manuals than they are about somebody bringing something in. It does look bad, though, that the guy got out again after the shooting.
PS. I called the station, WLOX TV 13 and asked why questions were not being raised. The operator grew angry and stammered that she would pass it along. Said they already had the story, and hung up! I have been told in the past that the Navy and Northrup Grummond, previously Ingall's Shipbuilding, tell the media what they can and cannot release. Guess it is true.
Mississippi ping
Whenever the Navy has operations involving defense "Stealth" ship building, etc., since 9/11, you would think that it would be almost impossible to get in with a gun. Think of the implications, and I will tell you that the Navy Offices on Chicot Rd., Pascagoula, MS, are guarded and bob-wired... go figure.
I worked in the facility for about 3 months after I retired from the Air Force and was waiting for something else to develop. It can be a real madhouse when people are coming/leaving - thousands walking through the various gates to and from the parking lots. Checking everyone would make a busy ariport seem a piece of cake with no delays. That said - the place is amazingly behind the times. I was in a combination electrical/machine shop area and it was prehistoric even when compared to a machine shop I had worked in 25 years before.
Being a contractor I can tell you that they dont do personal searches when you enter buildings pretty much anywhere in the government unless it is a secured area which entails quite a few different rules and regulations. But to just get on a base you wont get your person searched for weapons and stuff like that post 9/11 or not.
The truth of the matter is that with contractors, government employees and military on our bases, to search them all would take forever and no one would ever get anything done.
Ping.
I'm also a contractor. You nailed it exactly.
Thanks for the ping!
This is so sad to me. I realize you are right, nothing would get done, but I guess we've been just down right lucky that something "major" hasn't yet happened. Oh well, time to move on.
Security can be tight but employees have the credentials to enter and to leave buildings. Frequently in this age of cameras and electronic devices, most entrances are not guarded by a human. And in this day of fear of the hand gun, most facilities do not have armed guards.
The standard joke at Lockheed when the did have armed guards was that they let them have handguns but no bullets. I suspect this is the situation. Security is more a matter of good employees doing what is right, not attempting to counter and catch bad employees. The do disable past employees entrance codes right away though, but past employees can often get a current employee to let them in through a gate. (So called piggybacking, also not supposed to be allowed, but it is sometimes.)
If you had ever worked in a shipyard you wouldn't be questioning this situation at all because you would understand.
It is possible to walk in or out of any large shipyard with just about anything and that is particularly true of civilian shipyards that just happen to have Navy contracts.
There's even a long-winded joke about this exact issue.
Employees at private companies, even those working on government contracts, are general not searched when entering the premises. Most companies don't have the resources to conduct this type of activity and there would be hell to pay if they tried. It's a bit different if you are entering a secure government facility.
Visable uniformed and physical security features are impressive to folks who are in awe of such and respect it....ie; locks are for honest people.
Depending on the level of security :
.......Just a issued photo badge ?
.......A badge an a metal detector ?
.......Badge, metal detector and biometrics with argus style system ?
.......All hand carried items passed through a airport style x-ray ?
Security at such contractor sites is forced on the bidder and is mostly smoke and mirrors that appear to comply with "strict guidelines"...........All BS !
Static guard posts, personal recognition, trust, poor communications, multiple entry points, no breaks or rotation for security personal, management trying to overide or bypass the system for VIP's or senior company officials etc etc .....
Bad guys want ya they'll get ya. When ya prepare for everything evil will just do something else. IMO this shooter was a guy who'd worked there a long time, was trusted, had made friends with "all" including security and wasn't a threat. Just a good ole boy.
Most security professionals will tell ya the threat is internal not external.....
I think it was Red Adair that said .....If ya think hiring a professional is expensive try hiring an amature.
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