Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

FairTax.Org HR25
WWW.FAIRTAX.ORG ^ | Last Week | Thomas Leser

Posted on 02/13/2005 10:41:05 AM PST by nsmart

The FairTax is the non-partisan national sales tax proposal that would replace all federal income taxes. These include personal, estate, gift, self-employment, alternative minimum, capital gains, FICA, and corporate and death taxes.

(Excerpt) Read more at WWW.FAIRTAX.ORG ...


TOPICS: Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: consumptiontax; endincometax; fairtax; fairtaxorg; hr25; incometaxes; taxes; taxreform
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 341-360361-380381-400 ... 641-651 next last
To: Always Right
Anyone liable for tax, which includes consumers, can be audited and penalized.

Wrong. Anyone liable for remitting tax can be audited. Consumers pay the tax, retailers remit the tax.

Looking for reasons that don't exist to reject this?

361 posted on 02/15/2005 9:45:30 AM PST by Principled
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 357 | View Replies]

To: Principled
And just like today, when people buy something (a house?), they pay tax at purchase...

What tax do you currently pay on the purchase of a house or real estate. In Texas, there is no such tax.
362 posted on 02/15/2005 9:45:45 AM PST by Iwo Jima
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 339 | View Replies]

To: Iwo Jima
So there is no such thing as a used good before the tax goes into effect? And after the NRST goes into effect, a 20 year old car would be taxed as a new good the first time that it was sold? Are you saying that LAND is ever taxed as "new"?

All items previously sold, prior too the enactment of the tax, are considered previously-taxed. The transition plan allows for an inventory credit for unsold goods as well.

Land is considered previously taxed. New home construction or existing home improvement is taxable, but the land it is on is not.

363 posted on 02/15/2005 9:45:49 AM PST by kevkrom (If people are free to do as they wish, they are almost certain not to do as Utopian planners wish)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 358 | View Replies]

To: Always Right

That's a whole lot of paper!


364 posted on 02/15/2005 9:47:29 AM PST by Iwo Jima
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 344 | View Replies]

To: Iwo Jima
What tax do you currently pay on the purchase of a house or real estate. In Texas, there is no such tax.

You pay taxes on the money you used to buy the house (incoem, payroll atxes). The financier pays taxes on their profits, the construction company pays taxes on their profits, even your interest rate is inflated by about 30% because of taxes (check out tax-free vs. taxable bonds to see this in action today).

Just because there's no line-item at closing that says "tax" doesn't mean that theere are no taxes involved...

365 posted on 02/15/2005 9:48:03 AM PST by kevkrom (If people are free to do as they wish, they are almost certain not to do as Utopian planners wish)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 362 | View Replies]

To: Iwo Jima
And after the NRST goes into effect, a 20 year old car would be taxed as a new good the first time that it was sold?

No. If the car was produced during the income tax, it had tax already built into its price - it has already been taxed.

366 posted on 02/15/2005 9:48:06 AM PST by Principled
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 358 | View Replies]

To: kevkrom
You're confusing liability for the tax itself with liability for remitting tax receipts. They are not the same thing.

If you are liable for the tax, you better have reciepts. It doesn't matter if you are the consumer or whatever. The bill is crystal clear!

`SEC. 506. BURDEN OF PERSUASION AND BURDEN OF PRODUCTION. `In all disputes concerning taxes imposed by this subtitle, the person engaged in a dispute with the sales tax administering authority or the Secretary, as the case may be, shall have the burden of production of documents and records but the sales tax administering authority or the Secretary shall have the burden of persuasion.

Show me your papers! There is no other way to read this. There is even a toll free line to call the feds up to sick on your friends.

`(d) Telephone Reporting of Violations- The Secretary shall establish a system under which a violation of this subtitle can be brought to the attention of the sales tax administering authority for investigation through the use of a toll-free telephone number and otherwise.

367 posted on 02/15/2005 9:48:21 AM PST by Always Right
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 352 | View Replies]

To: Iwo Jima
You're not going to tell me that we have to keep records for every item bought or sold to determine if the tax was properly paid, are you? Think of the paperwork!!

EGADS no! That would be what we do now!!!!

Consumers don't have to keep records under the nrst.

368 posted on 02/15/2005 9:49:32 AM PST by Principled
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 358 | View Replies]

To: Always Right
If you are liable for tax, you have the burdon to produce the documentation.

No, that would be our income tax you're thinking of.

Really - it's business that has to produce - they're the only ones who remit to the taxing authority - if they fail to make you pay your tax, they'll still have to pay it to the tax authority.

Look for yourself. Remit vs pay is your mix up.

369 posted on 02/15/2005 9:51:50 AM PST by Principled
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 360 | View Replies]

To: Always Right

You are reading more into that than is there. Chapter 5 specifically refers to those "liable to collect and remit the tax", not to individuals making normal retail transactions. Any subsections to Chapter 5 are within the context of those required to file monthly reports (i.e., retail businesses and special cases, not individuals involved in ordinary retail activity).


370 posted on 02/15/2005 9:52:54 AM PST by kevkrom (If people are free to do as they wish, they are almost certain not to do as Utopian planners wish)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 367 | View Replies]

To: Principled
Wrong. Anyone liable for remitting tax can be audited. Consumers pay the tax, retailers remit the tax. Looking for reasons that don't exist to reject this?

Yes, and there are lots of instances where the consumer is liable for remitting the tax, including buying stuff off the internet on overseas purchases, or (gasp!) black market purchases, or mowing your neighbors yard. Consumers have the burdon of producing papers just like businesses. The bill can not be any clearer on this then it is. Show me your papers!

371 posted on 02/15/2005 9:52:59 AM PST by Always Right
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 361 | View Replies]

To: Iwo Jima
What tax do you currently pay on the purchase of a house or real estate.

The price of the good includes the costs of light bills, wages, copier leases, and every other cost incurred by the business - including tax costs. These tax costs travel from the beginning of the production chain to the consumer. Those taxes are the taxes paid on goods today. That's also the reason that goods produced under the income tax are already taxed.

372 posted on 02/15/2005 9:54:45 AM PST by Principled
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 362 | View Replies]

To: Principled
No, that would be our income tax you're thinking of. Really - it's business that has to produce -

I am sorry, but you are wrong here. There is no other way to read the bill. 'In all disputes', not in business disputes. "In all disputes".

`SEC. 506. BURDEN OF PERSUASION AND BURDEN OF PRODUCTION. `In all disputes concerning taxes imposed by this subtitle, the person engaged in a dispute with the sales tax administering authority or the Secretary, as the case may be, shall have the burden of production of documents and records but the sales tax administering authority or the Secretary shall have the burden of persuasion.

No matter how clear it is, there is not one NRSTer who is honest enough to admit what the bill clearly says.

373 posted on 02/15/2005 9:55:47 AM PST by Always Right
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 369 | View Replies]

To: Iwo Jima
And tell me this, how do you know if a tax has previously been paid on an item or not? You're not going to tell me that we have to keep records for every item bought or sold to determine if the tax was properly paid, are you?

Yes you better keep reciepts on all your new items for a period of 6 years. It is your burden according to the bill.

374 posted on 02/15/2005 9:58:02 AM PST by Always Right
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 358 | View Replies]

To: Always Right
No matter how clear it is, there is not one NRSTer who is honest enough to admit what the bill clearly says.

No one is denying that the bill says that. However, what you seem to be denying is that you have the context of that section incorrect -- it is only in reference to those already required to file reports, not to everyday retail purchases. In other words, depite your claim, John Doe does not have to produce receipts for his purchases.

375 posted on 02/15/2005 9:58:30 AM PST by kevkrom (If people are free to do as they wish, they are almost certain not to do as Utopian planners wish)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 373 | View Replies]

To: Always Right
Yes you better keep reciepts on all your new items for a period of 6 years. It is your burden according to the bill.

Incorrect. See above.

376 posted on 02/15/2005 9:58:51 AM PST by kevkrom (If people are free to do as they wish, they are almost certain not to do as Utopian planners wish)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 374 | View Replies]

To: CSM
So a business that is liscensed to purchase goods for retail sale, therefore without the sales tax, would risk that liscense to sell the goods cheaply. Is that your premise?

They would be between a rock and a hard place trying to avoid legal jeopardy and financial ruin. And they would put pressure on Congress to fix things (we all know how that would go - Congress only seems to "fix" problems by increasing its power and control over us).

Don't you think it would be easy to identify a retail liscensee that never submits any tax?

No one -- or very few -- would never submit any tax. Just like now very few people or businesses fail to file a tax return. They just wouldn't necessarily report every transaction that they maybe should have. Maybe it's due to Enron-like cooking the books. Maybe it's just a genuine but different interpretation of the law. You'd have to still have accountants to do your reports.
377 posted on 02/15/2005 9:59:27 AM PST by Iwo Jima
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 354 | View Replies]

To: Iwo Jima
You'd have to still have accountants to do your reports.

You're kidding, right? You think you'd need an accountant to determine:

( retail sales * NRST inclusive rate ) - credits

378 posted on 02/15/2005 10:01:11 AM PST by kevkrom (If people are free to do as they wish, they are almost certain not to do as Utopian planners wish)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 377 | View Replies]

To: Principled
How often will it happen that an individual does not purchase the necessities of life? Maybe buy-up one month to save the next month - but that means they paid last month.
About 35 million people in 2003.
379 posted on 02/15/2005 10:02:22 AM PST by Your Nightmare
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 325 | View Replies]

To: kevkrom
No one is denying that the bill says that. However, what you seem to be denying is that you have the context of that section incorrect -- it is only in reference to those already required to file reports, not to everyday retail purchases. In other words, depite your claim, John Doe does not have to produce receipts for his purchases.

No, the requirement to produce records in context says, "`In all disputes concerning taxes imposed by this subtitle, the person engaged in a dispute with the sales tax administering authority or the Secretary, as the case may be, shall have the burden of production of documents and records but the sales tax administering authority or the Secretary shall have the burden of persuasion." This doesn't say only those who are required to file reports, this say "In all disputes concerning taxes imposed". Geez.

380 posted on 02/15/2005 10:02:25 AM PST by Always Right
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 375 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 341-360361-380381-400 ... 641-651 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson