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The Brits are probably loving this stuff. (Yanks loosing it!) The dems are loving it too. Every chance the press gets, they link this anti-science stuff to conservatism.
1 posted on 02/07/2005 3:50:30 AM PST by PatrickHenry
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To: VadeRetro; Junior; longshadow; RadioAstronomer; Doctor Stochastic; js1138; Shryke; RightWhale; ...
EvolutionPing
A pro-evolution science list with over 230 names. See list's description at my homepage. FReepmail to be added/dropped.

2 posted on 02/07/2005 3:51:47 AM PST by PatrickHenry (<-- Click on my name. The List-O-Links for evolution threads is at my freeper homepage.)
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To: PatrickHenry
Once again the left is framing the debate, leaving conservatives with an uphill battle. They want you to think it is a debate between science and the Christian religious right. Now the right set itself up for this by putting the term "Intelligent Design" in the forefront, which happens to be the title of a book by a Christian.

In fact the concept of a creator and skepticism of many aspects of Darwinian evolution is not the exclusive domain of Christians. Anyone who is not completely convinced of the Darwinian theory has a stake in seeing the subject discussed and examined with a more open mind than it has been.
4 posted on 02/07/2005 4:06:47 AM PST by Northern Alliance
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To: PatrickHenry

Intelligent design, at least as noted in the article, got ONE thing right. Evolution is a theory, albeit one with quite a bit of support.

But the issues are being skewed here: science is NOT supposed to provide TRUTH. Science catalogs facts in the observed universe, and uses those facts to create highly-detailed working models of reality, accurately matching the universe at large in sufficient detail to be reliably used for engineering or predictive purposes. It may be totally wrong (especially in causation), but it provides RELIABLE RESULTS. . .

You want Truth, hit the Religion or Philosophy Departments. . .you want reliable, empirical results, hit the Science Department and the Engineering School


6 posted on 02/07/2005 4:14:02 AM PST by Salgak (don't mind me: the orbital mind control lasers are making me write this. . .)
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To: PatrickHenry

It is evolution that is anti-Science.

It is CHRISTIANS that developed every major science field to the greatness it is, and each of those Christians was a Creationist of some sort.


11 posted on 02/07/2005 4:39:17 AM PST by RaceBannon ((Prov 28:1 KJV) The wicked flee when no man pursueth: but the righteous are bold as a lion.)
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To: PatrickHenry
The Brits are probably loving this stuff.

The ones who read the Guardian, certainly - bunch of elitist snobs.

Evolution is a fact: it is the way God has created our bodies. Not so our souls.

Of more pressing concern is this idea that Science and Religion somehow contradict each other. This cannot be. There is only one truth, not two or three parallel truths.

If a fact really is true, then by definition no other path of truth can contradict it. No observable fact in the universe can really deny the existence of God, if he exists. Aquinas was right on top of this. Those of us on this board who believe need not fear any scientific revelation.

19 posted on 02/07/2005 4:58:23 AM PST by agere_contra
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To: PatrickHenry

Ever hear of Heinlein's Interregnum of the Prophets?

We're on our way.


23 posted on 02/07/2005 5:09:37 AM PST by From many - one. (formerly e p1uribus unum)
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To: PatrickHenry
You said-->"The Brits are probably loving this stuff. (Yanks loosing it!) The dems are loving it too. Every chance the press gets, they link this anti-science stuff to conservatism."

I have come to believe that you are correct here Patrick, the more I see of this posted on this conservative forum, the more that it makes sense to me.

You can be a left wing democrat and have a belief in creationism too, why do those guys burden us with that stuff and attempt to join political conservatives with the religious fringe?

Probably to make us seem jack boot stupid.

By the way, I am writing in the English language, which did not exist until well after the Norman conquest in 1066 and evolved to the present form since then. I suppose that someone should check out the stones on the remains tower of Babel to see why this error of communication occurred. God must be really pissed off that we are putting spacecraft on the moons of Saturn since he smited us with incomprehension because of our pride in reaching too high and possibly scratching His heaven. What have we done now?

Methinks that before the ID, Creationist, dudes start spouting science they should deal with that issue. In Hebrew.
24 posted on 02/07/2005 5:15:22 AM PST by atchoo2
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To: PatrickHenry
Religious right fights science for the heart of America [Evolution vs. Creationism]

Well, the headline says more than a lot of people are willing to admit.
26 posted on 02/07/2005 5:19:47 AM PST by aruanan
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To: PatrickHenry
The theory that all life shares a common ancestor rest on the premise that "nature is all there is"--Naturalism. Can science based on Naturlism say Intelligent Design is false? No! It can only state it is not science. This is a clever way to win an argument.
27 posted on 02/07/2005 5:20:23 AM PST by Texas Parent
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To: PatrickHenry
Once there was water on the early Earth, about 3.8 billion years ago, there was life.

By the odds, it should have taken many billions of years - if ever - to cook it just right, yet there it was.

Replication seems out of reach.

Strange indeed?

28 posted on 02/07/2005 5:25:23 AM PST by onedoug
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To: PatrickHenry

Interesting that it seems only Christians that have an argument with the THEORY of evolution?

Wonder what other religions think, the Jews for example?


29 posted on 02/07/2005 5:26:08 AM PST by Smartaleck (Tom Delay TX ..."Dems have no ideas, no agenda, no solutions.")
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To: PatrickHenry

Elijah Muhammad, founder of the Nation of Islam, used to teach that the white race was created in a test tube by black scientists. Does that qualify for teaching as an Intelligent Design theory?


39 posted on 02/07/2005 5:54:41 AM PST by Non-Sequitur
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To: PatrickHenry

Well, there are plenty of Bush voters, probably even within the so called "religious right," who accept evolution as a valid theory, but still believe in God, and even in intelligent design.

OTOH, the black population, to a great extent, is religiously identical to the religious right, but mirrors them in voting patterns.

I think most "liberals" believe Bush lost primarily because of moral values. It played a part, but, IMO, was not the greatest factor.


46 posted on 02/07/2005 6:12:55 AM PST by Sam Cree (Democrats are herd animals)
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To: PatrickHenry

God and science are not at odds at all. He and his believers are only painted as anti-science by those who can't accept God or his power. This article is an example of that. Notice the skewed writing, even in the title, framing believers as ignorant?


50 posted on 02/07/2005 6:19:07 AM PST by ViLaLuz
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To: PatrickHenry

"Every chance the press gets, they link this anti-science stuff to conservatism."


Unfortunately, 'conservatism' no longer seems to have any real 'fiscal' meanings but comes across with a theological tone these days, making the link you speak of quite real.


62 posted on 02/07/2005 6:44:59 AM PST by Blzbba (Don't hate the player - hate the game!)
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To: Dataman
There are so many parallels between the Priesthood of Evolution and the Roman Catholic Church.

In their wild-eyed intolerance for deviation from the party line, one brings to mind any given inquisition.

But particlarly this insistence on speaking of "science," as if it were an all-inclusive monolith.... When an RC talks with a Christian, the RCC is a unified, seamless entity over against the hopeless fragmentation of "Protestantism"; but look under the sheet, and you see Ted Kennedy RC's, John Kerry RC's, "Mother" Theresa RC's, Dominic Crossan RC's, Raymond Brown RC's, Hans Kung RC's, Pat Buchanan RC's, Mel Gibson RC's, and on and on.

The talk of "unity" is a myth brought out only to smack down any deviant thought, whether people actually examining the facts of nature (in the one case) or the Bible (in the other).

Dan
Biblical Christianity web site
Biblical Christianity message board
Biblical Christianity BLOG

79 posted on 02/07/2005 6:57:33 AM PST by BibChr ("...behold, they have rejected the word of the LORD, so what wisdom is in them?" [Jer. 8:9])
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To: PatrickHenry

It is not anti-science. But this debate is getting fun. Finally, the "evolutionists" must make their case, as opposed to just saying that if you disagree with them you must be "anti-science."

Thanks to the internet, both Dan Rather AND "evolutionists" have learned that the ad-Hominem attack has gone the way of the longbow as a useful weapon.


132 posted on 02/07/2005 7:50:12 AM PST by RobRoy (I like you. You remind me of myself when I was young and stupid.)
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To: PatrickHenry
"They believe that the naturalistic bias of science is in fact atheistic, and that if we don't change science, we can't believe in God. And so this is really an attack on all of science. Evolution is just the weak link."

This is a false portrayal of Creationists!

Only with regard to the creation do we view naturalism as atheistic. We are not attacking all science just evolution both as an origin of life and as an origin of higher life forms.

139 posted on 02/07/2005 7:53:13 AM PST by DannyTN
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To: PatrickHenry

Time may change the shape of rocks, but it can not create life. Just look at the face of most living things the two eyes are above the nose which is always above the mouth, this shows design. From the smallist thing such as the atom to the largest thing such as the universe they both appear much the same through the microscrope or telecsope.


142 posted on 02/07/2005 7:54:21 AM PST by Ibredd
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To: PatrickHenry
If the Kansas state school board allows science teachers to question evolution, where will it stop

Here's the problem. Why shouldn't science teaches be questioning the theroy of evolution? We want our science students to question everything until it's proved to their satisfaction.

Evolution (apart from natural selection) is a theory not a fact

144 posted on 02/07/2005 7:56:12 AM PST by John O (God Save America (Please))
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