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Religious right fights science for the heart of America [Evolution vs. Creationism]
The Guardian (UK) ^ | 07 February 2005 | Special Report (on USA)

Posted on 02/07/2005 3:50:28 AM PST by PatrickHenry

Al Frisby has spent the better part of his life in rooms filled with rebellious teenagers, but the last years have been particularly trying for the high school biology teacher. He has met parents who want him to teach that God created Eve out of Adam's rib, and then then adjusted the chromosomes to make her a woman, and who insist that Noah invited dinosaurs aboard the ark. And it is getting more difficult to keep such talk out of the classroom.

"Somewhere along the line, the students have been told the theory of evolution is not valid," he said. "In the last few years, I've had students question my teaching about cell classification and genetics, and there have been a number of comments from students saying: 'Didn't God do that'?" In Kansas, the geographical centre of America, the heart of the American heartland, the state-approved answer might soon be Yes. In the coming weeks, state educators will decide on proposed curriculum changes for high school science put forward by subscribers to the notion of "intelligent design", a modern version of creationism. If the religious right has its way, and it is a powerful force in Kansas, high school science teachers could be teaching creationist material by next September, charting an important victory in America's modern-day revolt against evolutionary science.

Legal debate

Similar classroom confrontations between God and science are under way in 17 states, according to the National Centre for Science Education. In Missouri, state legislators are drafting a bill laying down that science texts contain a chapter on so-called alternative theories to evolution. Textbooks in Arkansas and Alabama contain disclaimers on evolution, and in a Wisconsin school district, teachers are required to instruct their students in the "scientific strengths and weaknesses of evolutionary theory". Last month, a judge in Georgia ordered a school district to remove stickers on school textbooks that warned: "This textbook contains material on evolution. Evolution is a theory, not a fact, regarding the origin of living things."

For the conservative forces engaged in the struggle for America's soul, the true battleground is public education, the laboratory of the next generation, and an opportunity for the religious right to effect lasting change on popular culture. Officially, the teaching of creationism has been outlawed since 1987 when the supreme court ruled that the inclusion of religious material in science classes in public teaching was unconstitutional. In recent years, however, opponents of evolution have regrouped, challenging science education with the doctrine of "intelligent design" which has been carefully stripped of all references to God and religion. Unlike traditional creationism, which posits that God created the earth in six days, proponents of intelligent design assert that the workings of this planet are too complex to be ascribed to evolution. There must have been a designer working to a plan - that is, a creator.

In their campaign to persuade parents in Kansas to welcome the new version of creationism into the classroom, subscribers to intelligent design have appealed to a sense of fair play, arguing that it would be in their children's interest to be exposed to all schools of thought on the earth's origins. "We are looking for science standards that would be more informative, that would open the discussion about origins, rather than close it," said John Calvert, founder of the Intelligent Design network, the prime mover in the campaign to discredit the teaching of evolution in Kansas.

Other supporters of intelligent design go further, saying evolution is as much an article of faith as creationism. "Certainly there are clear religious implications," said William Harris, a research biochemist and co-founder of the design network in Kansas. "There are creation myths on both sides. Which one do you teach?" For Mr. Harris, an expert on fish oils and prevention of heart disease at the premier teaching hospital in Kansas City, the very premise of evolution was intolerable. He describes his conversion as a graduate student many years ago almost as an epiphany. "It hit me that if monkeys are supposed to be so close to us as relatives then what explains the incredible gap between monkeys and humans. I had a realisation that there was a vast chasm between the two types of animals, and the standard explanation just didn't fit."

Other scientists on the school board's advisory committee see no clash in values between religion and science. "Prominent conservative Christians, evangelical Christians, have found no inherent conflict between an evolutionary understanding of the history of life, and an orthodox understanding of the theology of creation," said Keith Miller, a geologist at Kansas State University, who describes himself as a practising Christian.

But in Kansas, as in the rest of America, it would seem a slim majority continue to believe God created the heaven and the earth. During the past five years, subscribers to intelligent design have assembled a roster of influential supporters in the state, including a smattering of people with PhDs, such as Mr Harris, to lend their cause a veneer of scientific credibility. When conservative Republicans took control of the Kansas state school board last November, the creationists seized their chance, installing supporters on the committee reviewing the high school science curriculum.

The suggested changes under consideration seem innocuous at first. "A minor addition makes it clear that evolution is a theory and not a fact," says the proposed revision to the 8th grade science standard. However, Jack Krebs, a high school maths teacher on the committee drafting the new standards, argues that the campaign against evolution amounts to a stealth assault on the entire body of scientific thought. "There are two planes where they are attacking. One is evolution, and one is science itself," he said.

"They believe that the naturalistic bias of science is in fact atheistic, and that if we don't change science, we can't believe in God. And so this is really an attack on all of science. Evolution is just the weak link."

It would certainly seem so in Kansas. At the first of a series of public hearings on the new course material, the audience was equally split between the defenders of established science, and the anti-evolution rebels. The breakdown has educators worried. With the religious right now in control of the Kansas state school board, the circumstances favour the creationists.

In a crowded high school auditorium, biology teachers, mathematicians, a veterinarian, and a high school student made passionate speeches on the need for cold, scientific detachment, and the damage that would be done to the state's reputation and biotechnology industry if Kansas became known as a haven for creationists. They were countered by John James, who warned that the teaching of evolution led to nihilism, and to the gates of Auschwitz. "Are we producing little Kansas Nazis?" he asked. But the largest applause of the evening was reserved for a silver-haired gentleman in a navy blue blazer. "I have a question: if man comes from monkeys, why are there still monkeys? Why do you waste time teaching something in science class that is not scientific?" he thundered.

Science teachers believe that the genteel questioning of the intelligent design movements masks a larger project to discredit an entire body of rational thought. If the Kansas state school board allows science teachers to question evolution, where will it stop? Will religious teachers bring their beliefs into the classroom?

"They are trying to create a climate where anything an individual teacher wants to include in science class can be considered science," said Harry McDonald, a retired biology teacher and president of Kansas Citizens for Science Education. "They want to redefine science."

Religious right

Young Earth creationism: God created the Earth, and all the species on it, in six days, 6,000 years ago

Old Earth creationism: The Earth is 4.5bn years old, but God created each living organism on the planet, although not necessarily in six days

Intelligent design: Emerged as a theory in 1989. Maintains that evolution is a theory, not a fact, and that Earth's complexity can be explained only by the idea of an intelligent designer - or a creator


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Miscellaneous; Philosophy; US: Georgia; US: Kansas
KEYWORDS: creationism; crevolist; darwin; evolution
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To: mlc9852

"I think they could have figured out days pretty easily."


And yet, we know for a fact that they didn't have timepieces.


121 posted on 02/07/2005 7:43:34 AM PST by Blzbba (Don't hate the player - hate the game!)
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To: mlc9852

"What legislation has been passed "using" religion?"


Religion was used to pass the numerous no-gay-marriage amendments. Religion is the driving factor in the numerous schools-teaching-evolution decisions.


122 posted on 02/07/2005 7:44:35 AM PST by Blzbba (Don't hate the player - hate the game!)
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To: Blzbba
BTW, after taking 6 Calculus courses at Georgia Tech, I certainly agree that it's ungodly and can border on unholy!

Having taught 6 or so calculus courses (at a smaller school) I can agree. Of course, only graduate students are allowed in on the fact that Newton was a closet unitarian. A few are indoctrinated into what happens to the souls of the departed quantities.

123 posted on 02/07/2005 7:45:32 AM PST by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch is der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: WildHorseCrash

So you don't believe species began as species but that everything "evolved" into what exists today? Plants started as plants and continued as plants. Animals began as animals and continued as animals. Humans began as humans and continued as humans. I'm not sure I follow your point.


124 posted on 02/07/2005 7:45:55 AM PST by mlc9852
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To: Blzbba

You don't need to be religious to understand male-female.


125 posted on 02/07/2005 7:46:35 AM PST by mlc9852
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To: RaceBannon

Rotating relative to what?


126 posted on 02/07/2005 7:46:38 AM PST by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch is der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: Blzbba

How do you know that?


127 posted on 02/07/2005 7:47:28 AM PST by mlc9852
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To: Doctor Stochastic; PatrickHenry

It seems, if anything, that past climatic history predicts against global warming.

I gather, then, that the greenhouse modeling is based on theoretical outcomes of increased carbon emissions, something else that may not be happening at all.

Pardon me for getting off topic, the scientific techniques you recounted made me think of the climate controversy. Thanks for your replies.

I don't usually post on the crevo threads, although I do look in on them sometimes, since they are often pretty interesting.


128 posted on 02/07/2005 7:47:39 AM PST by Sam Cree (Democrats are herd animals)
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To: Quick1
Sadly, what is completly and utterly wrong is professing Christians to try to tell people that the Bible says one thing, but means something entirely different.


10 Reasons Why the Six Days of Creation Were Literal 24 Hour Days
1. "EVENING AND MORNING"
God has carefully defined the word "day" by the expression "evening and morning." "And the
_______________________
and the ________________________
were the first ________" (Genesis 1:5 and see verses 8,13,19,23,31).

There is something that every day contains: AN EVENING AND A MORNING!! How many days

are represented below?

E-M-
E-M-
E-M-
E-M-
E-M-
E-M

_________ DAYS

Daniel 8:14 (according to the Hebrew text) says "Unto 2,300 evenings and mornings; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed." How many days is this? _________ DAYS. See also Daniel 8:26.

Every 24 hour day has an evening and a morning.
Does an AGE have an evening and a morning? _______ (a long period of time would have many, many evenings and mornings!)
An age may have a beginning and an ending, but it does not have just one evening and morning!!

2. Numerical Adjustive
God also defines the word "day" by putting a NUMBER before it: "And the evening and the morning were the ______________ day" (Genesis 1:5).
God tells us exactly what day it was. It was the FIRST DAY. See also Genesis 1:8,13,19,23,31 and Exodus 20:11 ("SIX days").

When a number comes before the word "day," it almost always refers to a literal 24 hour day.

Compare Numbers 7:12,18,24,30,36,42,48, etc. Let us consider these examples:

a) We are living in the day of manned space flight. (Is this a 24 hour day?)
b) Have you learned in history class about the first day of manned space flight in1961 when a
Russian cosmonaut became the first man to leave our earth’s atmosphere?
(Was this a 24 hour day?)
a) "I can remember the day when I was in the first grade." (Was this a 24 hour day?)
b) "I can still remember the third day of first grade when the teacher told me to stand in the corner

of my classroom because I was not behaving." (Was this a 24 hour day?)
a) GENESIS 2:4—"in the day the LORD God made the earth and the heavens (How long was this

"day"? – See Exodus 20:11)
b) GENESIS 1:31—"And the evening and the morning were the sixth day" (Was this a 24 hour day?)
3. Day and Night
In Genesis 1:5 God has told us what happened on "the ___________ _______."
What kind of a day was this first day?
Was it an age?
In verse 5 God has said that this first day was made up of a period of light called ________ and a period of darkness called ______________.
So we know that this first day was a day-night period. DAY 1 of the CREATION WEEK was a

period of 12 HOURS OF LIGHT and 12 HOURS OF DARKNESS.

DAY

(LIGHT)
NIGHT

(DARKNESS)


12 Hours
12 Hours

24 TOTAL HOURS = THE FIRST DAY!

How many days are represented above? ________

Every 24 hour day has a DAY (period of light) and a NIGHT (period of darkness).

Does an AGE have a DAY and a NIGHT? _________ (An age has many, many days and nights!)

4. The Fourth Day
Genesis 1:15-19 describes the fourth day of creation. In these verses the word "day" or "days" is used 5 times. Please match the following:

_____ Verse 14–"to divide the day from the night"
_____ Verse 14–"for days, and years"
_____ Verse 16–"to rule the day"
_____ Verse 18–"rule over the day"
_____ Verse 19–"the fourth day"
A literal 12 hour day

A literal 24 hour day

An AGE (a long period of time)


5. The Seventh Day
The seventh day was a 24 hour day also (Genesis 2:1-3).
On what day were Adam and Eve created (Genesis 1:26-31)? ____________________
Did God curse the earth on the seventh day, the day which He blessed (see Genesis 3:17-19 and Genesis 2:3)? ____
Did Adam and Eve live beyond the seventh day? _______
How old was Adam when he died (Genesis 5:4-5)? __________________
The seventh day was not a long age lasting thousands or millions of years. It was a 24 hour day just like the first six days.

CHRONOLOGY OF EVENTS

6. The Fourth Commandment
The fourth commandment is found in Exodus 20:8-11 and in these verses the word "day" or "days"

is used 6 times. To see how the word "day(s)" is used in these verses, please do the matching problem found at the top of page 35:

EXODUS 20

_____ Verse 8—"sabbath day"
_____ Verse 9—"six days"
_____ Verse 10—"seventh day"
_____ Verse 11—"six days"
_____ Verse 11—"seventh day"
_____ Verse 11—"sabbath day"
Literal 12 hour day(s)
Literal 24 hour day(s)
An age (a long period of time)


Notice in Exodus 20:11 that the number _______ is placed before the word "days" (see pages 32-33).
Your friend might say to you, "I worked on a paper for school and it took me six days to finish!" Do you think your friend meant days or ages? ______
How long did it take God to finish His work of creation (Exodus 20:11)? _____________________

Do you think these were 24 hour days? ________

In these verses we learn that God’s WORKING AND RESTING was to serve as a pattern for Israel’s WORKING AND RESTING. God told the children of Israel that He wanted them to work six days (Sunday through Friday) and rest on the seventh day (Saturday) because this was exactly what God did when He created the heavens and earth (Exodus 20:11).

If the days of creation were ages, then the WORK DAYS for the children of Israel must also be ages (if we are to be consistent). Can you imagine a hard working Israeli man coming home after a day’s work and collapsing in his wife’s arms, saying, "My dear wife, what a long and hard day of work I had! Today I worked 500 million years and I am really tired!! I can’t wait for the Sabbath to come so that I can rest!"

Of course, this would be ridiculous! This is what happens when a person tries to make DAYS mean AGES. It becomes silly. On the following page we will learn that DAYS (PLURAL) can never be ages.

7. Days (plural)
In Exodus 20:11 we are told that the LORD made everything in six days. The word "DAYS" is plural. When the word "day" is used in the plural (DAYS), it almost always refers to literal 24 hour days. The word "day" (singular) can be used of a period of time that is longer than 24 hours: "the day of the LORD" "The day of grace" "the day of trouble" "the day of modern science" etc. (see pages 31-32), but the moment a person speaks about DAYS (plural), he is talking about 24 hour days. Consider these examples:

How many days are there until your birthday?
It took the children of Israel 7 days to capture the city of Jericho (read Joshua chapter 6).
Mark 14:1–"two days."
Revelation 12:6 (the last half or the final 3½ years of the tribulation period).
Exodus 20:11—SIX DAYS.
8. The Basic Meaning of the Word "DAY"
We have already seen that the word "day" can be used to describe a 12 hour period of light (Genesis 1:5,14,16,18). The word "day" can also be used of a longer period of time (2 Peter 3:8-10;

Jeremiah 30:7). But most of the time when we use the word "day" we are speaking of a 24 hour day. This is the normal and basic meaning of the word "day."

When we study the Bible we always should understand a word in its literal, normal, natural and basic meaning unless this meaning does not make sense. Here is our rule—If the basic sense makes good sense, then seek no other sense, lest it result in nonsense.

Here are some examples:

The basic meaning of "LAMB"—a four footed animal, a young sheep.
Does Isaiah 11:6 use the word according to its basic meaning? _____
Does John 1:29 use the word according to its basic meaning? ______
The basic meaning of "DOG"—a four-legged animal often used as a pet.
Does Luke 16:21 use the word according to its basic meaning? _______
In Philippians 3:2 and Revelation 22:15 is this word used according to its basic meaning? _______
The basic meaning of "BLOOD"—the red liquid in the veins and the arteries.
Does John 19:34 use the word according to its basic meaning?_______
Does Matthew 26:28 use the word according to its basic meaning? _______
Note: Roman Catholics have misunderstood this verse because they wrongly understand "blood"according to its basic meaning, and thus when they take the MASS they believe that the juice of the grape becomes the actual blood of Christ. Compare John 6:54 with John 6:40 where we see that eating His flesh and drinking His blood is equivalent to believing on Him.

Should we understand the days of creation to be literal 24 hour days (this is the basic meaning of the word)? Does this make good sense or does this make nonsense? Consider these questions:

Can an Almighty God complete His work of creation in 6 literal days? Is anything too hard for the Lord (Genesis 18:14)?
Could God have done this in one literal day? In one second?
Why did God do it in 6 days (Exodus 20:11)?
Did God need millions of years to make our world the way it is?
Does it make good sense to say that the days of creation were ages?
The only reason some people think they need to make the six days of creation long periods of time (ages) is because they feel they need to give the "god" of the evolutionists enough time to do his work. The god of chance needs plenty of time (see page 30)! He could never have done it in six days! In fact it is doubtful that he could have done it even if he had 6 quadrillion days (6,000,000,000,000,000)!

9. What did Moses Think?
Moses was the man God used to write the book of Genesis (Luke 24:27,44). Whenever you study the Bible you must ask yourself this important question: How did the original writer (in this case Moses) and the original listeners (the children of Israel) understand what was written?

Do you think Moses understood the days of creation to be long ages of time? Would the people

who lived in the time of Moses have thought of these days as normal 24 hour days? Did they have any reason to think of these days as ages?

Moses and the people of his day believed that God began His work of creation on Sunday, created man on Friday and rested on Saturday. Do you believe what Moses believed?

10. Make Your Choice: Genesis or Evolution?
Some people believe that if you make the days of creation ages (long periods of time), then Genesis chapter 1 teaches the same as evolution. They believe that the order of events in Genesis 1 is the same order of events as given by the evolutionists. Let us see if this is really true:

Evolutionists say that the SUN came before the EARTH.
But God says the sun was made on DAY ______ and the earth was made on DAY _____.

Therefore the earth is _______ days older than the sun!
Was there LIGHT even before the sun was made? _______
On what day was this LIGHT created? DAY _____

Evolutionists say that life must first begin in the sea (in the ocean). They teach that after millions of years some life forms eventually moved onto the land.
But God says life in the ocean appeared on DAY _______ and life on land first appeared on DAY ______ (plant life).
Thus, life on land appeared _____ DAYS before life appeared in the oceans (marine life).

Evolutionists say that reptiles came before birds (because they believe that birds evolved from reptiles).
But God says that birds were made on DAY ______ and land animals (which would included land reptiles) were not made until DAY ______.
Birds are _____ DAY older than reptiles!
Could birds have evolved from reptiles? ______
Certainly reptiles did not evolve from birds! (Not even the evolutionists would say this!).
The Bible says God made the birds and God made the reptiles. Reptiles did not precede birds by hundreds of thousands of years.

"Every thinking person knows that birds were created before reptiles, because that is what God has told us in His Word."


Evolutionists say that land mammals came before whales (because they believe that whales evolved from land mammals).
But God says that whales and other great monsters of the sea were created on DAY _____ and land

mammals were not made until DAY _____.
Which came first, the whale or the pig? _________________
Do you think the whale has evolved from pig-like animals? ________
Therefore whales are ______ DAY older than land mammals!
For a land mammal to become a whale he would need to return to the water, lose his hair and grow

about 50 times as big! Do you think this really happened? ______
A large elephant (the largest land mammal) weighs about 7 tons! A blue whale (the largest kind of
whale) weighs about 150 tons! The whale did not evolve by chance; it was created by God!

Evolutionists say that plant life is impossible without insects because the pollination process (the
way plants reproduce) requires insects such as bees.
But God says that insects (creeping things) were not created until DAY _____ and plant life appeared on DAY ______.
This means that plant life appeared _______ DAYS before insects.
Do you think plants and flowers could survive for 3 ages without insects? ______
Do you think plants and flowers could survive for 3 days without insects? _____

Evolutionists say that ape-like creatures came along thousands of years before man (because they
believe that man evolved from ape-like creatures).
But God says that men and apes were both created on DAY _______.

Evolutionists say that the sun must have been here before life could begin (because they believe life
began as the sun’s rays beat down upon the primitive oceans).
But God says that life (vegetation) appeared on DAY _____ and the sun was not made until DAY ______.
It is possible for life to begin without the sun but can life begin without the CREATOR? ______

Who is the source of life, the sun or the CREATOR (see Acts 17:28)? _______
Life owes its existence not to the SUN but to the SON OF GOD (see John 1:3 and Colossians 1:16).

Please indicate on which DAY of creation the following were made:
_______ Whales
_______ God rested on this day
_______ Fish
_______ The earth
_______ The stars
_______ Insects (bees)
_______ Land Reptiles
_______ Trees
_______ Flowers
_______ Monkeys
_______ The Sun
_______ Birds
_______ Elephants

_______ Man
_______ Sharks
_______ Light
_______ Dry Land
_______ Turtles
_______ Firmament
(an expanse of space)
_______ Eagles

You cannot listen to both God and the evolutionists! They do not teach the same thing! If Genesis
chapter 1 is true (and it is!), then evolution is false.
If evolution is true, then Genesis chapter 1 is false, and the Bible is filled with errors.
But the Lord Jesus said that the Word of God is ___________ (John 17:17) and we know that

God’s Word is __________ from the ___________________ (Psalm 119:160).
Who should you believe — the CREATOR or the evolutionists?
Will you put your faith in the false god of the evolutionists who needs billions of years to do his

work, or will you put your faith in an Almighty Creator who can create all things in 6 DAYS?

As you observe and study the world around you, you will discover that all the true facts of science

and all the true laws of science agree perfectly with the Bible and with the book of Genesis!
Do you think it is possible for BOOK 1 (God’s revelation in nature) to contradict BOOK 2 (God’s

revelation in His Word)? _______ (see pages 14-21).
Who wrote Book 1? __________
Who wrote Book 2? _____________
God is the Author of both! This is why both books say the same thing. And both books point to the

greatness of the C________________, who is blessed forever, Amen (see Romans 1:25).
Sad to say, the books that the evolutionists write often do not agree with the true facts of science
and they certainly do not agree with God’s Word the Bible! CHOOSE you this day! (See Joshua 24:15.)
Choose the true God of creation or the false God of the evolutionists (the God of chance)!
129 posted on 02/07/2005 7:48:19 AM PST by RaceBannon ((Prov 28:1 KJV) The wicked flee when no man pursueth: but the righteous are bold as a lion.)
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To: Doctor Stochastic

ummm, itself, how about that?

Gosh, dont you evolutionists think?


130 posted on 02/07/2005 7:48:54 AM PST by RaceBannon ((Prov 28:1 KJV) The wicked flee when no man pursueth: but the righteous are bold as a lion.)
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To: RaceBannon

A DAY is notmeasured bythe sun. "

Yes it is.



"It is measured by the rotation of the earth one complete cycle."

As it relates to the sun. Without Sol, how would you know when you completed the rotation?


"If not, then we didnt have any days go by during the last blizzard we had up here for almost 3 normal days, because we didn't see any sun at all."


They're called 'Clocks' and thanks to the godless Mayans, we have them.


131 posted on 02/07/2005 7:49:26 AM PST by Blzbba (Don't hate the player - hate the game!)
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To: PatrickHenry

It is not anti-science. But this debate is getting fun. Finally, the "evolutionists" must make their case, as opposed to just saying that if you disagree with them you must be "anti-science."

Thanks to the internet, both Dan Rather AND "evolutionists" have learned that the ad-Hominem attack has gone the way of the longbow as a useful weapon.


132 posted on 02/07/2005 7:50:12 AM PST by RobRoy (I like you. You remind me of myself when I was young and stupid.)
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To: RaceBannon

"So, your nonsense is humorous actually..."


Actually, your 'clocks aren't based on the sun' reply was one of the funniest, most-ignorant things I've ever read!


133 posted on 02/07/2005 7:50:29 AM PST by Blzbba (Don't hate the player - hate the game!)
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To: doc30

Just curious.

Did she watch TV? Get her hair done? You get my drift.


134 posted on 02/07/2005 7:51:01 AM PST by From many - one. (formerly e p1uribus unum)
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To: mlc9852

'How do you know that?"


Exit polls!!


135 posted on 02/07/2005 7:51:09 AM PST by Blzbba (Don't hate the player - hate the game!)
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To: Doctor Stochastic

Evolution and Communism

Another interesting facet of history is the connection between evolution and communism. With communism the struggle of "race" is replaced by the struggle of "class" as history is viewed as an evolutionary struggle.

Both Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels were evolutionists before they encountered Darwin's "The Origin of Species" - (Dec 12, 1859) Engels wrote to Marx: "Darwin who I am now reading, is splendid" (Morris 1989, 83 quoting Zirkle). Like Darwin, "Marx thought he had discovered the law of development. He saw history in stages, as the Darwinists saw geological strata and successive forms of life... In keeping with the feelings of the age, both Marx and Darwin made struggle the means of development" (Morris 1989, 83 quoting Borzin). "There was truth in Engel's eulogy on Marx: 'Just as Darwin had discovered the law of evolution in organic nature so Marx discovered the law of evolution in human history'" (Morris 1989, 83 quoting Himmelfarb).

"It is commonplace that Marx felt his own work to be the exact parallel of Darwin's. He even wished to dedicate a portion of Das Kapital to the author of The Origin of Species" (Morris 1989, 83 quoting Barzum). Indeed, Marx wished to dedicate parts of his famous book to Darwin but "Darwin 'declined the honor' because, he wrote to Marx, he did not know the work, he did not believe that direct attacks on religion advanced the cause of free thought, and finally because he did not want to upset 'some members of my family'" (Morris 1989, 83 quoting Jorafsky).

Other Soviet Communist leaders are evolutionists as well. Lenin, Trostsky, and Stalin were all atheistic evolutionists. A soviet think tank founded in 1963 developed a one-semester course in "Scientific Atheism" which was introduced in 1964. Also, a case can be made that Darwinism was influential in propagating communism in China.

Interestingly, according to Morris, Stephen Jay Gould of Harvard University, the co-founder of the punctuated equilibrium theory of evolution is a Marxist in philosophy, along with other distinguished Harvard evolutionary scientists and university professors across the country. One has to ask - could a person espouse the Marxist view and tolerate creationism?

References:
Morris 1989, 82-92
Continue with: Evolution and Social Darwinism

Go to Creation Science home page

136 posted on 02/07/2005 7:51:16 AM PST by RaceBannon ((Prov 28:1 KJV) The wicked flee when no man pursueth: but the righteous are bold as a lion.)
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To: Blzbba

Surely by now we've all learned not to rely on exit polls!


137 posted on 02/07/2005 7:52:28 AM PST by mlc9852
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To: RobRoy; PatrickHenry

"But this debate is getting fun. "



Indeed! Now I'm seeing a Creationist claim that measurement of time was well-established before God's creation of the Sun AND that our measurement of time is NOT based on our relation to the sun. Classic ignorance!!


138 posted on 02/07/2005 7:52:57 AM PST by Blzbba (Don't hate the player - hate the game!)
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To: PatrickHenry
"They believe that the naturalistic bias of science is in fact atheistic, and that if we don't change science, we can't believe in God. And so this is really an attack on all of science. Evolution is just the weak link."

This is a false portrayal of Creationists!

Only with regard to the creation do we view naturalism as atheistic. We are not attacking all science just evolution both as an origin of life and as an origin of higher life forms.

139 posted on 02/07/2005 7:53:13 AM PST by DannyTN
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To: RaceBannon

How can you tell?


140 posted on 02/07/2005 7:53:41 AM PST by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch is der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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