Posted on 01/31/2005 8:17:49 PM PST by newgeezer
NEW ORLEANS (Reuters) - The head of Nissan Motor Co., breaking ranks with some of his leading rivals, said on Saturday that building fuel-sipping hybrid vehicles makes little sense in today's world because of their high costs.
"They make a nice story, but they're not a good business story yet because the value is lower than their costs," said Nissan Chief Executive Carlos Ghosn.
Nissan will, in fact, start manufacturing a gas-electric hybrid version of its Altima sedan for the U.S. market in 2006.
But Ghosn said the model was only intended to help Japan's second-largest automaker comply with strict fuel economy and emissions standards in states like California, not because he expects it to be a money-maker.
Nissan will license some technology for the hybrid Altima from Toyota Motor Corp., which is the world leader in hybrid production along with Honda Motor Co. Ltd.
The hybrids made by Toyota and Honda are in high demand, but production levels are still relatively small.
Toyota plans to nearly double production of its hybrid Prius car for the U.S. market this year, with production totaling some 100,000 vehicles.
Ford Motor Co. is alone among U.S. automakers in producing mass-market hybrid models; Ford recently announced plans to introduce four new models between this year and 2008.
Ghosn's comments, which are likely to draw criticism from environmental groups, came in an address to the National Automobile Dealers Association, which opened its annual convention in New Orleans on Saturday.
In his speech, he noted that only about 88,000 of the 16.9 million light vehicles sold in the United States last year were hybrids, adding that they are still considered "niche" products and something way outside the automotive mainstream.
He also poured cold water on hydrogen fuel cell vehicles, which many automakers see as the industry's next big technological breakthrough.
"The cost to build one fuel cell car is about $800,000. Do the math and you figure out that we will have to reduce the cost of that car by more than 95 percent in order to gain widespread marketplace acceptance," Ghosn said.
Ghosn, who is credited with a dramatic turnaround at Nissan, is poised to take over as chief executive at France's Renault SA in May.
His future role, simultaneously running operations at two major automakers, is thought to be an industry first.
Nissan -- owned 44 percent by Renault -- scored the biggest sales jump of any major car maker in the United States last year, with a 24 percent surge to 986,000 vehicles.
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© Reuters 2005
Fair is fair. Let 'em prove it!
Hybrids have to haul around all those batteries, electric motor-generators, gears and clutches. That's a lot of dead weight most of the time.
Current cost of battery cells= $5000
Gas= $2.35 per gallon
Generous average fuel mileage of prius 45mpg
Average of comparable size car 35mpg
difference= 10mpg
Prius Fuel cost 100,000 miles= $5222
Average car fuel cost 100,000 miles= $6714
Difference after 100,000 miles= $1492
after 200,000= $2984
after 300,00= $4476
So, just how many miles are you planning on keeping that prius, by my math you would have to drive it over 300,000 to see any fuel savings, but wait it costs at least $5000 more than a well equipped new car. So, figure that into the equation and you would have to drive it nearly 700,000 miles to see any overall savings.
Oh, but then wait a minute you're going to need more battery packs, Arrgghh. Do I need to do some more math?
You folks get the point.
Do the math people, it doesn't make financial sense any way you look at it.
When I see a prius drive by, I don't see a person who is saving the earth. I see a person who just got suckered into wasting their money.
If you really love to save fuel then wait another year for the clean diesels if you must, but they're still going to sell for a premium that is going to negate any savings at the pump.
Don't be a chump. Just wait for the hydrogen cars.
WOW, you were getting 80 mpg in the insight? Wait a minute whats that smell? Hold On.
40 miles*5 days week*4 weeks=800 miles
800/10 gallon tank= 80 mpg
FYI: people can be generous with the truth, but numbers don't lie
Of course he's right... TDI has been getting the milage of these "hybrids" for years... It makes way more sense than these hybrid nonsense.
"they pump less gunk into the atmosphere in cities with lots of traffic congestion"
Bring back the smog levels in the Los Angeles Basin to what they were in the 40s and 50s and maybe all the complaining imigrants from the North East US will go back where they came from and we can have out state back!
Back then the only ones complaining were what I consider ILLEGAL IMIGRANTS from elsewhere in the US!
read later. I drive a diesel.
It was the Golf diesel, and it got 55 mpg on the highway, around 40 in the city.
Battery replacement costs at approx. $4,500 per ten years.
Trouble is, Al Gore & Company won't let us buy a simple diesel today.
"And we could probably get significant savings just by getting everyone to get a tune-up and inflate their tires properly..
Simple: MAKE IT A LAW!!!!!!"
What is this fascination with encumbering everything with law? When I lived in CA, they had (probably still have, but moreso) laws that required you to get your 'smog check' essentially proving your car is in reasonable shape.
So, do people maintain their old clunkers at significant cost (by the time it makes a difference, it's expensive)? No. They dump in a $3 can of fuel additive, pass the test, and go about their lives.
People will buy efficient cars when they choose to. They will choose to when it becomes enjoyable, or when they must. Enjoyment is sort of intangible, and one guy may enjoy 70mpg and the other towing a boat to the lake. Of the 'must' category, the first is when the savings from fuel justifies the cost, and the second is when Big Government comes in the form of laws or taxes to smash choice and have 535 people (or 9 Lords in black robes) tell the other 300 million how to live.
Exactly, where are all the do-gooders when it comes to discussing disposing of dangerous chemicals and toxic metals in massive quantities?
I think that people just buy these cars as a fashion accessory, like a "save the earth" bumper sticker that you can drive.
No amount of logic or facts can convince them otherwise. So I'll just shut my mouth and continue to snicker every time I see one of the tree hugging landfill polluters drive by.
You know, we waste so much in our greedy, capitalist society. There is probably so many things we refer to as trash that could fuel something. For instance, how many leftist, tree hugging morons are still driving around with "Kerry-Edwards" bumper stickers on their crappy little cars? How many of this a-holes have the same weather, faded, bent commie-liberal lawn posters expressed their demented, undying love for those two losers??? There is enough of this garbage out their that the junior senator from Mass. could fuel his and Zsa-Zsa's air and ground fleet for at least three months!
At least (so far) they've not told us how to BUY them!!!
One day in the early Eightys, I bought a running Vega for $50 and a non-running riding lawnmower for $100.
Go figger.....
Ha ha!
Where will HIS stuff come from?
At what cost?
You've done a fine job on the math on the hybrids: have you done it for THIS?
Because the Villagers haven't enough sense to do what is needed.
THIS stuff.......
"Hybrid cars are "over rated" in that their gas mileage is not nearly as high as the EPA ratings indicate."
This is not completely untrue, however, getting the mileage shown in specs is possible, but it requires modifying the normal brainless driving habits shown by those in regular cars, including me when I drive my Avalon. You have to build actual DRIVING SKILL.
When I drive my Hybrid, I'm shown constant feedback on how my skills impact on efficiency. Soon it gets to be fun pushing that average mileage meter up. My wife and I challenge each other to return the vehicle with a higher average mileage figure than when we took it.
Don't laugh; I really like it. I've said goodbye to all those d*mn speeding tickets ("municipal donations") I was getting too. Pay less gas tax: DRIVE A HYBRID!
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