Nissan Chief: Hybrid Cars Make No Sense

Reuters ^ | Sat Jan 29, 2005 07:44 PM ET

[newgeezer]

NEW ORLEANS (Reuters) - The head of Nissan Motor Co., breaking ranks with some of his leading rivals, said on Saturday that building fuel-sipping hybrid vehicles makes little sense in today's world because of their high costs.

"They make a nice story, but they're not a good business story yet because the value is lower than their costs," said Nissan Chief Executive Carlos Ghosn.

Nissan will, in fact, start manufacturing a gas-electric hybrid version of its Altima sedan for the U.S. market in 2006.

But Ghosn said the model was only intended to help Japan's second-largest automaker comply with strict fuel economy and emissions standards in states like California, not because he expects it to be a money-maker.

Nissan will license some technology for the hybrid Altima from Toyota Motor Corp., which is the world leader in hybrid production along with Honda Motor Co. Ltd.

The hybrids made by Toyota and Honda are in high demand, but production levels are still relatively small.

Toyota plans to nearly double production of its hybrid Prius car for the U.S. market this year, with production totaling some 100,000 vehicles.

Ford Motor Co. is alone among U.S. automakers in producing mass-market hybrid models; Ford recently announced plans to introduce four new models between this year and 2008.

Ghosn's comments, which are likely to draw criticism from environmental groups, came in an address to the National Automobile Dealers Association, which opened its annual convention in New Orleans on Saturday.

In his speech, he noted that only about 88,000 of the 16.9 million light vehicles sold in the United States last year were hybrids, adding that they are still considered "niche" products and something way outside the automotive mainstream.

He also poured cold water on hydrogen fuel cell vehicles, which many automakers see as the industry's next big technological breakthrough.

"The cost to build one fuel cell car is about $800,000. Do the math and you figure out that we will have to reduce the cost of that car by more than 95 percent in order to gain widespread marketplace acceptance," Ghosn said.

Ghosn, who is credited with a dramatic turnaround at Nissan, is poised to take over as chief executive at France's Renault SA in May.

His future role, simultaneously running operations at two major automakers, is thought to be an industry first.

Nissan -- owned 44 percent by Renault -- scored the biggest sales jump of any major car maker in the United States last year, with a 24 percent surge to 986,000 vehicles.

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© Reuters 2005

[xm177e2]

But Ghosn said the model was only intended to help Japan's second-largest automaker comply with strict fuel economy and emissions standards in states like California, not because he expects it to be a money-maker.

Ha ha. The rest of you get to subsidize my ride.

What's that? I can't afford one? Nevermind... grumble grumble...

[staytrue]

the cost of battery disposal

This is a concern for electric cars, and much less so for hybrids. Hybrids don't have a lot of battery. All they do is have generators for brakes which takes breaking energy and stores it so the next time you accelerate, this energy is put back into motion.

[B Knotts]

Diesels make a lot more sense.

Agreed.

It's about time somebody spoke up about this. It reminds me of the story of the emperor's new clothes.

And this guy has done an astounding job at Nissan, bringing them back from the edge of irrelevance.

[NationSoConceived]

Hybrid cars are "over rated" in that their gas mileage is not nearly as high as the EPA ratings indicate.

It is difficult to determine just how overall efficient they are, whether their increased mileage makes up for the increased upfront cost and the cost of battery disposal, etc

EPA ratings and total cost of ownership aside, I borrowed a Honda Insight from a family member and drove it for a few months. It is wonderful to have to fill up a 10 gallon gas tank just once a month, on 40 miles a day's worth of commute.



It was also a fun little car. Not what I would call sporty, but it had the pickup when you needed it.


What happens when China is forced to float it's currency in the next five years and the costs to manufacture in China double? Then Mr Ghosn will look like a genius and everyone else will wonder why they missed the obvious.

I read an interesting piece in the Wall Street Journal a few weeks ago about how China could not float its currency because of its own banks.

According to the article, about half of the current outstanding loans from Chinese banks are uncollectable. Write-offs, if you will. If the Yuan were floated, that number of uncollectable loans would increase to near 90%. That would bankrupt the lot of them.

I dont think we are going to see the Yuan float anytime soon.

[Richard Kimball]

My VW Diesel got an actual 46 mpg combined city and highway. I got rid of it because there was no one within a hundred miles in any direction I trusted to work on it.

A guy I know got a hybrid and was bragging to me about his mileage, which was about 37. I looked at the hybrids, and figured out that with the cost differential, I could buy a standard Honda Civic, and would have to drive about 250,000 miles to cover the cost differential in mileage between the standard and hybrid with increased fuel economy at the rated mileage. In actuality, many people get within a mile to a gallon with the standard what they get with the hybrid. This was if I didn't have to replace the massive batteries, and according to most people I talked to, they had a life span of about five years, and they still don't have a working disposal model that makes economic and ecological sense for them. Of course, you CAN be just like Robin Williams, and have one in the garage alongside your fifty other cars and drive it when you want to be ecologically correct.

Or, you can be like Barbra Striesand, who has her driver take a Winnebago shopping, so she can use her private bathroom, instead of having to hang out with the hoi polloi.

[lmr]

We bought some of these trucks for our garbarge truck fleet, and they get horrendous gas mileage. Consumption is 2 to 3 times what it used to be. The new standards on Diesel have brought diesel up to 2x the price it was 4 years ago. Also, this just in, This Trashman says Recycling is a myth along the lines of Elvis Sightings, Alien Abductions and oh yeah, Hybrid cars.

[ThisLittleLightofMine]

I think they should be "I've got too much money and I am idiot car".

[farmfriend]

Rights, farms, environment ping.
Let me know if you wish to be added or removed from this list.
I don't get offended if you want to be removed.

[farmfriend]

Rights, farms, environment ping.
Let me know if you wish to be added or removed from this list.
I don't get offended if you want to be removed.

[farmfriend]

Oops, pay attention Maggie.

[BurbankKarl]

There are a couple Michigan suppliers getting into the Nickel Hydride battery business because of the worldwide shortage. That should create some jobs in the Rust Belt.

[lepton]

I could deal with that. My father-in-law just traded his Toyota pickup for a Prius. He was spending $60/week on gas...now he is spending $20 every other week. That is quite the savings.

Going from a pickup to a small car is plenty of difference. Most of the Hybrids increse in real fuel economy is from things other than the motor-drive train. You could do wonders stripping stuff out of a little deisel.

[Cobra64]

Personally, I don't want to have several hundred pounds of lead in my car. This concept makes no sense.

I'll drive my normally aspirated 1964 289 Shelby Cobra, thank you.

[mercy]

They're cool?!!

They're effing $30k golf carts. If you are hit by an actual outomobile ... let alone a pickup truck ... you are going to die like a sardine.

[DTogo]

Toyota plans to nearly double production of its hybrid Prius car for the U.S. market this year, with production totaling some 100,000 vehicles.

Yeah, Toyota's famous for lousy cars and throwing money down the toilet.

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/ks?s=TM

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/ks?s=NSANY

[chuckles]

The answer is not battery cars but hydraulic hybrids. They pump fluid into an accumulator and bleed it out to the hydraulic motors at the wheels or differential. They work better than electrics and have no batteries. They also have more power than electrics, with no heat, and only have leaks to aggravate any normal maintenance. The electric craze will die when people see the hydraulic advantages. Ford is working on one(or 2), full size models. The tech has been available for decades.

I can't imagine the pile of batteries after a couple of years of this. And the cost!

[SierraWasp]

Ooops! You made a boob boo... And what I wanna know is... did'ja make it when ya wuz usin electric, er gasolinini??? In uther wurds, wer ya generatin, guzzlin, er cruzin ina shiftless manner when that there dubble clutchin uv yers occurred, huh???

Now, if'n yew wuz a generatin, I wanna know how many kilowatts/hr and if'n yew was a guzzlin gasolinini, I wanna know how many kilo's per mile yew wazza blowin outta yer tailpipe after goin through yer catilack converter an winter muffler!!! Oh! An didit have any midwesturn wood alkeehaul mixed in???

Then I wanna know if'n yew wer cheatin by havin that musclebound dummy Schwartzy in that teeny rig of urn, peddlin that alter-native fly wheel enurgy storage gizmo for extra boosts climbin them thar hills and such. Do ya evur hafta wip him??? Did he evur experience shortness (of breath, that is) frum smokin two many seegars or left-handed seegarettes fulla them silly seeds???

Inquirin fiends wanna know, don'tcha know???

P.S. Wuz Art Bell hitchin rides with yew and the Schwartzenoid???

[SierraWasp]

"I dont think we are going to see the Yuan float anytime soon."

I much prefer watching "WILL IT FLOAT?" on David Letterman with the hula-hoop & grinder girls!!!

[calcowgirl]

... midwesturn wood alkeehaul mixed in...

ROFL. Where do you come up with this stuff???

Hey. Who's gonna drive on that new Hydrogen Highway? Barbara Streisand and Larry Ellison?

"The cost to build one fuel cell car is about $800,000. Do the math and you figure out that we will have to reduce the cost of that car by more than 95 percent in order to gain widespread marketplace acceptance," Ghosn said.

Hey FF... I think this was a snort & snicker ping! (SW: that means you snort, she snickers! lol)

[Constantine XIII]

LOL