Georgia Flag Vote update

Southern Heritage PAC ^ | Jan 25 | SHPAC

[DixieOklahoma]

Support Georgia's right to have a REAL vote on their state flag... The only vote issued did not include the flag that sparked all the controversay in the first place!.

In addition, only 6% of registered voters showed up at the polls, BECAUSE the real Georgia state flag wasn't included in the referendum!!

There is currently a bill that has just been filed with the Georgia State House to allow the real flag to be included in a statewide vote, as well as the current flag.

No matter your feeling on the flag personally... There SHOULD BE a vote on this state flag. After all it is the people of the state of georgia that the flag represents! Right is right, and the people should have a vote on their stolen state flag.

RINO governor (the liar) Perdue, who will be defeated in his re election attempt in 2006, has vowed that this bill will be killed in comittee.

Lets see that that doesn't happen:

Representative	District	Home Town	Position	Capitol Phone
Scott Austin	153	Tifton	Chairman	404-656-5132
Jennings Paul	82	Atlanta	Vice-Chairman	404-656-0126
Geisinger Harry	48	Roswell	Secretary	404-656-0254
Brooks Tyrone	63	Atlanta	Member	404-656-6372
Burmeister Sue	119	Augusta	Member	404-656-5024
Mosby Howard	90	Atlanta	Member	404-656-0287
Oliver Mary Margaret	83	Decatur	Member	404-656-0265
O'Neal Larry	146	Warner Robbins	Member	404-656-5103
Powell Alan	29	Hartwell	Member	404-656-0202
Scheid Chuck	22	Woodstock	Member	404-657-8442
Smith Lynn	70	Newnan	Member	404-656-7149

If one of the above is your Representative, now is the time to call and very politely tell them that you want a FAIR Vote. If you have not already done so, consider signing up for automatic notification (click here) so that you will get a brief email when new updates are posted.

Also check the January Lobbying Checklist update which is being updated tonight.

If you do not know what your new district number is or who your new Representative is after the elections and redistricting, check the January Lobbying checklist or visit the poll locator on the Secretary of State's web site.

Please call your Representative, especially if they are on the Governmental Affairs Committee and politely, just tell them that you want a FAIR Vote. You want them to support the FAIR Vote bill, HB15. If your Representative is on this committee also tell them that you would like for them to report HB15 out with a recommendation to pass in a timely manner.

Pass this on to others, now is the time to support A FAIR Vote, click here.

 

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For print version click .

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Your donations and support are needed to continue the fight against those politicians who would eradicate our symbols, culture, and heritage.

SOUTHERN HERITAGE PAC
P.O. Box 725308
Atlanta, GA 31139
1-888-329-7397 or 1-706-374-4744

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AGAINST ANTI-SOUTHERN POLITICIANS!
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			© Southern Heritage Political Action Committee, 2003, 2004

[Red Phillips]

Secession is not a panacea. There will never be a panacea for how men poorly govern themselves until the Lord returns. But most countries are the (somewhat) natural process of ethnic, linguistic, religious, historical affinity. Therefore, most secession movements are base on ethnicities. The Basque in Spain, for example, are Celtic, more related to the Irish,Scots, and Welsh than they are to their Spanish oppressors. No, secession, does not always lead to less government. But it is the nature of man to object to being ruled by the other, the outsider. Therefore, better tyranny from within rather than tyranny from without.

But look at it from the point of view of the Government that is going to use force to suppress a secession movement. What possible justification is there for killing people in order to prevent someone from leaving our union. Natural resources, exploitation, "territorial integrity," historical boundaries. If a Government goes to war to prevent the independence of a secession movement, that is tyranny plain and simple. No promise the new group will be better or lessed governed. But they will be governing themselves.

[Red Phillips]

If the vote was between the Barnes flag and the '56 flag as was 1st proposed, the '56 flag would have won hands down.

I do not know if the '56 flag would win vs. the current flag. But I guarantee you it would win hands down outside metro Atlanta. Only question is if the rest of the State would be able to balance out Atlanta. But it would win probably > 75% of the counties. Another good reason to secede form Atlanta.

[Red Phillips]

There is no need to wonder about the source of my "obsession with the Confederate Battle Flag." I am well aware of the source. When this country was founded as a union of sovereign states it was understood that there was a right to leave the union. It never would have passed if that wasn't understood. 3 States including New York and Virginia even expressly withheld that right when they ratified it. Latter when the Southern States chose to excise that option and did so legally and peacefully, Lincoln illegally invaded and shredded the Constitution in the process. 600,000 + died in Lincoln's illegitimate and bloody war. And don't think for one second that the Yankee lie that it was all to free the slaves is correct. Monumental amounts of historical evidence disputes that. It was to save the precious Union which is a pretty poor reason for getting more than half a million people killed.

Am I motivated by hate? You be the judge. I hate tyranny. I hate oppression. I hate injustice. I hate wanton slaughter and destruction. Perhaps I am motivated by hate.

Am I motivated by spite. You bet I am. I'll take every opportunity I can get to spite my Yankee oppressors and the grave injustice they enacted and are still pursuing.

If you were any kind of Southerner, you would be equally motivated by hate and spite.

[4CJ]

Am I motivated by spite. You bet I am. I'll take every opportunity I can get to spite my Yankee oppressors and the grave injustice they enacted and are still pursuing.

I LIKE thumbing my nose at sanctimonious, holier-than-thou hypocrits.

[Colonel Kangaroo]

If you were any kind of Southerner, you would be equally motivated by hate and spite.

I am a Southerner. I hate the Confederate cause and there has always been Southerners who have hated the Confedeate cause. Here is an opinion from 1866 that expresses my viewpoint. It is taken from the book History of the Rebellion in Bradley County, East Tennessee" by J.S. Hurlburt:

"Judging from the citizens now here, it is impossible to account for the tyranny and heartless oppression that prevailed among them for nearly three years, only upon the supposition that the rebel cause soaked up nearly all the ruffianism of the county, thus compelling the majority to submit to the outlandish rule of the rabble. This rabble, headed and led on by an upper strata of the same class, unprincipled politicians, and equally unprincipled slave trading, slave driving, money making and speculative characters, reinforced by others of the same sort from southern rebel districts, formed the element which inaugurated and kept alive the rebellion in East Tennessee."

I know there were many people who served the Confederacy out of noble and patriotic motives. This extends from General Lee to the brave and hardy butternut private. I think people should be proud of their Confederate soldier ancestor. He fought bravely for a bad cause. But I think the honorable ordinary Confederate soldier was ill used as cannon fodder for the narrow interests of the slave owning class. And the situation was not as uplifting on the home front. Unfair exemptions from service to slave owners caused understandable dissent. And as the story of East Tennessee, Northern Alabama, Northern Georgia and Western North Carolina shows, the rebellion subjected the union loyal population to oppression from home grown tyrants.

[Amelia]

I see it as a bunch of cowards caving in - people without a backbone.

If you were any kind of Southerner, you would be equally motivated by hate and spite.

I don't see why y'all feel the need to insult the people who don't agree with you. Do you feel that threatened by us?

I used to have a lot of hate and spite. It made my blood pressure go up and my stomach hurt. Now I try to avoid it.

I was also personally convicted that those emotions had little or no place in a Christian, but I suppose that's a topic for a different thread and a different board.

Suffice it to say that I don't think negative emotions move a person or a state forward.

[Red Phillips]

The Union loyalist were generally highland Southerners. As were all the places you mentioned plus West Virginia. They were less Union loyalist, than they were unconvinced that their interest were fairly represented by the lowland dominated Southern state legislatures. There was always and still is to a lesser degree, a tension between highland and lowland Southerners. The highland Southerners obviously had less tillable land and couldn't have large plantations. If you think the highland Southerners were Yankee lovers or Union lovers, you would be wrong. They just disliked and distrusted the lowland South as well.

I never said the Confederacy was perfect. War brings out the worst in men. And all Southerners are subject to the same fallen human nature that everyone else is. Ideally, according to my secession is good model, the resistant areas of the Confederacy should be able to secede from the Confederacy. (Of course as long as they remained neutral, and didn't take up arms against the Confederacy. In time of war no one is going to allow a shooting enemy inside it's territorial area.)

If you are insinuating that the war was fought just because the "narrow interest of the slave owning class," you have been reading too many Yankee textbooks. The Confederate cause was the cause of independence, secession, self determination. If you oppose those things, then you may reside in the South, but I question if you are really a Southerner of the heart. Morris Dees is from the South, but he is no kind of Southerner. And if you question those things, I definitely have doubts that you are a conservative,

[4CJ]

I don't see why y'all feel the need to insult the people who don't agree with you. Do you feel that threatened by us?

Ma'am, I apologize - I did not mean it as an insult. I certainly don't feel threatened. What I meant by my statement was that some take a stand for what is important to them, and others don't. I am just as passionate about attempts to seculalize/atheize our state, about the slaughter of millions of innocents, as I am about the preservation of our history, and in my belief that Southern actions were legal remedies to a defect in the federal relations with other states in a voluntary union without delegated powers to prohibit secession.

To that end, I firmly believe that my ancestors, and millions of other Southerners were not traitors - they did not owe allegiance to the union and they did not receive protection from it. I simply think that revisionists have whitewashed history to portray Northerners as saints and Southerners as racist bigots.

I've lived here all my life, and the most racist people I have met have alway been transplanted yankees. One moved into our neighborhood, and asked my wife and how how to prevent blacks from moving next door. He didn't know that I moved next door to a very sweet black lady and her children, nor did he know about the other black families near us. I simply told him if he wanted to avoid blacks to move back north.

[Colonel Kangaroo]

Ideally, according to my secession is good model, the resistant areas of the Confederacy should be able to secede from the Confederacy

I have to give you a tip of my hat for the consistency of your position. I find it more agreeable than the typical pro Confederate view that the God-given right to self determination is only God-given in the form of state governments.

One thing that I would say about the comment on the mountain South's affinity for Yankees. I don't see the big gap between any Southerners and most people in the Union. The Confederate soldier-farmer and the Union soldier-farmer were natural allies. The people of my area just didn't have the slave issue to obscure the fact of our common nationhood. I think there is a lot of truth in the old saying that the Civil War was a rich man's war and a poor man's fight.

[Red Phillips]

Well, on a subject where there is often more heat than light, thanks for being cordial.

I have heard the argument from some Confederates that secession stops at the States. I don't agree, but I see the argument. The argument being that the States were the organic political entity that created the Union. That secession has to stop somewhere, or else you get to the point where you are talking about individuals seceding. Curiously, I have been criticized on this forum by some for exactly that reason. That my view of secession would allow cities and counties to secede. To which I respond, the more the merrier.

The problem I have with what you wrote is this. Our first loyalty and affection should be to our family then kin then friends then neighbors/church members/organization members/coworkers etc. then city then county then State then region, then nation. Our closest affection should be to the most local. Our least affection should be to the distant and far off such as the nation. I know that kind of talk drives the "Patriotic" Nationalist nuts, but so what. They have it backwards. I am a patriotic Phillips first, then Georgian, then Southerner, then American, not the other way around. And that is the most natural state.

In fact, that is what is at work with the highland South issue. Their concern was greater for their fellow highlanders than it was for the South in general, and that is the way it should be. That is why local government is almost always better than centralized. It is more likely to represent a uniformity of opinion and interests.

But it is also why they had more affinity for the rest of the South than they did the North, even though their interests were not entirely coincident. The mountain South had in common with the lowland South a preponderance of Celts vs. Anglos. In fact, the mountain South was almost entirely Celtic. Which explains the extreme similarity in many of the folkways of the highland Southerners and the Highland Scots, for example. The highlands were similarly orthodox in its Christian beliefs. It was fiercely traditional and resistant to change and the new. For these and other reasons, I believe they were more similar to their fellow Southerners than they were to their Yankee farmer counterparts in say Pennsylvania. Few owned slaves because the land was not suitable for plantation style agriculture. So you are correct that they didn't have a dog in that hunt.

[Amelia]

What I meant by my statement was that some take a stand for what is important to them, and others don't.

You are still mischaracterizing the issue I think.

It's not at all that I'm not willing to stand up for what is important to me, it's that the 1956 flag is not that important to me, or to most people in Georgia.

I like the current flag. It honors our ancestors without the negative connotations of the Battle Flag.

I heard a man on the radio the other day who is trying to change the image of the swastika. He says it was used as a religious symbol by certain sects for centuries before it was adopted as the Nazi symbol. The CBF doesn't have negative associations for you, but unfortunately it does for many people, including possibly your next door neighbors.

[AlGone2001]

No one I know cares about the flag.

It's so unimportant you almost never see one in someone's yard, or even on their car in the form of a bumper sticker.

There are just some losers who have made it a single issue, and would vote Governor Sonny Purdue out of office over it. I think that the flag issue is fueled primarily by liberals who want to drive a wedge in the republican vote.

[4CJ]

The CBF doesn't have negative associations for you, but unfortunately it does for many people, including possibly your next door neighbors.

Nope. Never stopped them from coming into our house, or swimming in our pool, or us eating together. 79% of registered voters in GA favour a vote on the flag, and '[a]nother interesting fact is that 16% of blacks in Georgia said they favored a new vote on the flag'

[Amelia]

From your link: "A very suprising statistic is that a full 18% of black Georgians said the confederate battle flag represented southern pride, though 71% said it represented racism and slavery."

[Red Phillips]

Well then 71% are wrong. We clearly have some more educating to do. (Or perhaps re-educating is a better term.) It does not help matters when Southern whites embrace the same nonsense.