The belief that without God there is right and wrong is illogical. I wasn't talking about the lack of belief in God.
No it's not, otherwise you could show that it was.
Well, I guess I am disputing that, too, lol. Just because I believe that God is the one that has endowed us with a sense of right or wrong doesn't mean I can't get why they think there can be right or wrong without God. It's quite simple, really. If there is no God, how could he have created right or wrong?
It's just the genesis of a circular argument, because each assumes the other's baseline is erroneous. It's basically an unwinnable one, unless you can get them to accept God in the first place. Or vice versa.