Posted on 01/26/2005 9:46:21 AM PST by 7thson
When I pulled into the parking lot this morning, I saw a car covered with sacrilegious bumper stickers. It seemed obvious to me that the owner was craving attention. I’m sure he was also seeking to elicit anger from people of faith. The anger helps the atheist to justify his atheism. And, all too often, the atheist gets exactly what he is looking for.
(Excerpt) Read more at townhall.com ...
You have read only second-hand accounts, I'm afraid. I've just given you a first-hand account. Take care that you do not believe everything you read, even on supposedly Christian websites. Lies are told in the name of Christianity. Those who tell them may well not be real Christians, but you cannot always trust everything you read on some website or in a book.
I have first-hand knowledge, and I have shared it with you. It does not match what you claim.
Is it possible that what you experienced was deception, to try to assure you that you would not face eternal separation from God after death? Are you positive that Satan could not have given you a beautiful experience to mislead you?
atheism if about -> atheism is about
No I don't.
I said I BELIEVE he exists, and I have evidence that I think is credible enough to support that belief. Faith is a requirement of Christians. It isn't optional. It isn't factual, but there are facts and artifacts that underline and support the basis of my beliefs.
It is you who says He does NOT exists. You and other atheists. You are sure of it.
There is zero logic to your last message. Not a shred.
Saying 'you have two sons' is not the same thing as me saying 'there is a God'. One is a fact, you have two sons, or it isn't and you do not. I can use other evidence, other facts to prove or disprove that fact.
I believe God exists. I have faith that God exists. I can present evidence: historical, empirical, and circumstantial that He does. I never said, for a verifiable fact, that He does. No one wants to be loved because the object of your affection has a gun to your head. God gave us a choice, and enough proof, and said make up your own mind. Without faith, Christ's sacrifice would have been pointless.
But, all that doesn't matter. I don't say He exists, I say I BELIEVE He exists. You say there is no God. Full stop. Fine. Prove it.
Either prove it, or admit it can't be disproven, and that in the face of that doubt you are truly an agnostic - ready to go where the evidence takes you as your life unfolds.
"The reason it is important is philosophical: atheism if about what is presumed not to exist. Hence it has no symbolism and no motivating power. Since people drawn to atheism are still people, they fill the need to glorify their worldview just like the rest of us. Some, -- not all -- turn to ugly bumper stickers, which is the topic on hand."
Truly, you are incorrect. Atheism is not something tangible. It is merely a lack of belief in supernatural entities, sometimes referred to as gods or deities. I disbelieve. It takes no effort on my part.
No monument is necessary, since there is nothing to make a monument to. Disbelief is a negative thing, not a tangible one.
I don't hold a belief that there is no diety. I simply disbelieve in all supernatural entities. It's not an active thing, but a passive one.
I'm not an agnostic, since I don't have any questions about the existence of deities or other supernatural entities. I simply don't believe any such exist. It occupies none of my time, except when I discuss the topic.
There is nothing to glorify in atheism. There is nothing to worship. There is no possible reason for a monument. I belong to no atheist organization, nor do I even think about it, except in threads like these.
Atheism is not a philosophy, even. It is simply a disbelief, a non-belief, a lack of belief.
"Is it possible that what you experienced was deception, to try to assure you that you would not face eternal separation from God after death? Are you positive that Satan could not have given you a beautiful experience to mislead you?"
What experience? I had no experience at all. I died and was revived. The time between my heart and breathing stopping and my being revived is empty. Nothing at all happened. There it is.
MM
You still or won't admit that is you had Solid Proof you were either going to turn into dirt or live in Paradise upon your death you would choose Paradise.
Your last post gave only accounts of what happens to the body of a living creature upon physical death. I agree but we are more than our physical bodies which will die and decay I agree with you there.
I am not trying to debate you on the validity of NDE's but I am saying that if you had a choice of knowing where your eternal soul goes DIRT or PARADISE you would choose PARADISE...
You have the Bible? but your toying with the thought that you might end up in Jupiter? what Bible do you have?
>>I just re-read the Bible for the 3rd time and it is an amazingly disturbing document full of murder and revenge- all this talk of pro-life coming out of the fundamentalist community seems entirely misplaced since God in the Bible kills millions at will, many of them innocent children, all the time.<<
Yes. It is a powerfull expose on the plight of man and the need for our perfect Savior to shed his own innocent blood for our salvation - eternity with Him, outside this present reality, where everyone dies (even "innocent children, all the time").
disbelieve what?
"I am not trying to debate you on the validity of NDE's but I am saying that if you had a choice of knowing where your eternal soul goes DIRT or PARADISE you would choose PARADISE...
"
Ah, but I have no such choice. What happens to me will happen. You may believe that you have that choice, and that's fine, but your choice depends on your belief system regarding this issue.
I have no belief system regarding religion. I simply disbelieve, so there is no choice involved. I KNOW what happens to living creatures when they die, because I have witnessed it personally.
Since I don't believe in any supernatural entities, the choice does not exist for me.
>>...atheism teaches that a certain thing does not exist.<<
If only it were that simple.
"disbelieve what?"
Huh? The subject is deities and afterlives. I disbelieve in both, but don't encourage others to disbelieve. Pretty obvious.
That is exactly what I was saying. You stated it beautifully.
Your remaining argument is apparently, against my assertion that atheists "fill the need to glorify their worldview just like the rest of us". I concede that it is possible that some atheists don't have such need, since you say that you don't.
You know the people that were in the building on 9-11 who had to make the ultimate Choice of dying by fire or jumping out the window of the World Trade Center had choices going on right?
They could of said I have to die no getting out of it, I can choose to beleive I will spend eternity in the dirt or I can choose to beleive that GOD will catch me when I jump and will lead me with him in Paradise..It is a choice Mineral Man.
Here's the distinction as I see it:
Agnostic - Doesn't know whether there is a God or not and doesn't believe that we can ever really know. Will never take a position on whether or not there is a God.
Strong Atheist - Believes positively there is no God. If he sees any evidence for God, he will believe it is flawed because he knows there is no God. Most people mistakenly believe that the majority of atheists believe this, but these types of atheists are in the minority, and in fact, not looked that respectfully upon by many other atheists because making a positive statement that there is no God is very similar to making a positive statement that there is a God - both are just absolute beliefs that rely on faith. When people talk derisively about atheists and describe their beliefs, they are usually talking about strong atheism which is frustrating to the majority of soft atheists...
Weak/Soft Atheist (the majority of atheists) - They believe that there is no God because they have yet to see any compelling evidence of a God. They will keep an open mind as to the existence of God, but have yet to see evidence as of yet. If they are made aware of any compelling reason to believe in a God, then they will certainly believe. If God appeared to them tomorrow, they would cease to be atheists. They don't discount the possiblity of God exisiting, but in the same vein, they don't discount the possibility of the Loch Ness Monster or leprechauns existing. I'm not saying this to be flip. We might find out someday that there were a bunch of reclusive Irish midgets that could do things that regular people couldn't, and we might find out for sure some day that there is some great force out there that is intelligent and guiding us. Until then, soft atheists don't believe in God, and in fact, most are not even capable of believing in God as anything more than a vague and unlikely possibility.
"I hope we do not turn into an Atheist country were religion is suppressed and punished."
So do I. I also hope we do not turn into a religious country where atheists are suppressed and punished.
Same thing.
It is that simple. The rest are internal contradictions of atheism into which I have no desire to get.
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