Hydrogen Fuel May Not Be So 'Clean'

LOS ANGELES — Hydrogen-fueled cars have been hailed as the future of transportation — clean, safe and propelled by a power source whose only by-products are air and water.

The problem, critics say, is that the technology that makes the fuel of the future generates just as much pollution as the gasoline-powered vehicles we drive right now.

Extracting useful quantities of hydrogen from water requires a massive amount of energy — energy that typically comes from burning oil or coal.

Ok, ok. Let me qualify that statement about the black wire and the white wire.

If the switch is open(off) then the potential difference as measured between the white wire and a suitable ground(metal conduit, or a screw on a junction box cover plate for instance) is zero, but not so for the black wire.

I guess I was thinking "volt meter" even though the post read "current meter" I don't see the value of using a "current meter" when checking houshold wiring and I can't really think of any time I've used one. When checking wires for "power", what you really want to know is "will this wire zap the sh*t out of me if I touch it?" and also "If I hook this wire up to an electrical device, will that device function?". And a current meter ain't gonna tell you that, is it?

And from now on, I guess I gotta put quotes around the word "power", whenever I use it in laymans terms insead of textbook electricity theory terms.

Here's some layman's term definitions for ya:

"juice" is what the "POWERplant" sends ta yer household "wyerin" by way of the main fuzebox. And that's why the technical term for "juice" is "power". And if'n there ain't no "power" in yer "wyerin", then yer TV ain't gonna work real good no matter how many times ya change the baddrees in yer reemote. An' sometimes if ya ain't gettin no juice ta yer wyerin, It's 'cause ya gotta take yer fuze outta yer fuze box an wrap it in tinfoil an THEN screw it back in again. Either that'er ya fergot to pay yer "power" bill and they shut yer "power" off an that's why ya ain't gettin no "juice" ta yer "wyerin". An if ya did ferget to pay, well then there's ways a fixin that too, but ya gotta go outside an find yer lectric meter in back a yer trailer, and then...well I'll tell ya the res later when there ain't no one else 'round.

LOL

Yes, not much use for a current meter, but I was arguing that even though you can get a shock (jolt) from the black wire with respect to earth ground, you can't make earth ground work as the return to the power plant. (
Thats what started the issue, because it was suggested that electricity using earth ground would be a good way to generate H2 all over the place. I just said you have to have a second return wire path, thats all.

Now if you do bypass that meter, do it is gradual steps so the power company computer does not catch on

Oh, there's sneaker ways to get your power for free, and may not even be illegal.

For instance, convert your basement into a separate apartment and rent it out. Then when you get separate meters installed, just tap into the basement apartment's fusebox for your power upstairs...hehehe.

You can do the same for gas and water too. And there is such a thing as a mixing valve. What these are good for is to use only a PORTION of the basement apartment's gas and water for your use, that way you don't get caught...and you can even adjust the mixing proportions too...hehehe. Oh us rednecks have our ways, yes we do indeed.

Yeah, thats why I screwed up. I was a landlord for a while but I did not have a separate meter, so I charged what I thought was enough to cover the utilities on the rent, but over time I did not raise the rent, then a tenant moves in who likes the heater on all the time...ouch.

Nice to know I am on the right side of this.,

FRegards.

Question about hydrogen by product.
As I was slipping and sliding to work something popped into my head.
Water is the by product of the Hydrogen fuel cell car.
What is the amount of water produced and where does it go?
If it is a large amount and it is dumped directly into the air as vapor or directlyt onto the roadway as water, won't this freeze and cause huge ice problems in colder climates.
Just wondering.

Not a problem, for two reasons. First, the volume of output is miniscule compared to the water vapor already in the atmosphere, even at very low temperatures. In fact, the lower the temperature, the higher the vapor will rise before dissapating. Second is the very fact that the output IS vapor, not liquid. Actually, that is a problem, because the heat of vaporization represents energy not captured for productive use, and thus completely wasted.

Hydrogen will NEVER be a fuel, in the sense of being an energy source, on this planet - it does not exist in its free molecular form here, in the way that petroleum hydrocarbons do. But as an energy VECTOR - a way to make concentrated energy storable and/or transportable - it might be useful.

However, consider the fact that if you compress molecular hydrogen to nearly 20,000 PSI - several times the usual pressure of commercial gases - you have the same amount of hydrogen per unit volume as plain old gasoline. I suspect that a pure form of synthesized gasoline, such as pure iso-octane - will become the hydrogen fuel of the future.

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.