Skipper of submarine San Francisco relieved of command

Navy Times | 1/20/5 | William H. McMichael

[SmithL]

Commander Mooney has been reassigned.

[Romulus]

That's correct; I'm just a citizen. But even a civilian puke has the right to ask if "because that's the Navy way" is an acceptable response.

[Clemenza]

Submarine San Francisco? Why am I visualizing a pink submarine filled with sailors in halter tops?

[CTOCS]

Also has to do with naming conventions.

In the US Navy, it's "USS" for United States Ship

In the British Navy, it's "HMS" for Her (or His) Majesty's Ship.

In the Italian Navy, it's "DMB" for Datsa My Boat......

[shubi]

LOL You certainly have the right. That and $4.00 will buy you a mocha frappichino.

[Chemist_Geek]

A ship can "carry" boats.

Does that then make USS Cole a boat?

[deaconjim]

San Francisco’s new commanding officer is Cmdr. Andrew Hale, deputy commander of Submarine Squadron 15.

I would assume that, since Cmdr. Hale is not being demoted to take the position, he is serving as CO of the San Franciso concurrently with his current position. That would indicate that the move to relieve Mooney could be temporary, pending the outcome of the investigation.

[Doohickey]

Well, generally yes. A moving haven is cube of water that moves at a set speed. The SUBNOTE author makes an effort to route around knows submerged interference, but that can't always be done. If there are known unsafe areas inside a boat's track, it's up to the boat to operate around those areas.

The ultimate responsibility for safe navigation of the vessel lies with the Captain. I can remember times when we requested changes to SUBNOTEs because the track we were given was unsafe for some reason.

We don't have near enough information to assign even partial fault. Yes, the Force commander may have unwittingly laid down a SUBNOTE track through an unsafe area. Yes, the boat may have been operating outside if it's MHN. We just don't know. You also have to remember that the Force commander uses the same charts and has the same Notice to Mariners that the boat gets. No more, no less.

Accountability cannot be delegated. With that accountability comes authority. If CDR Mooney thought he was operating in an unsafe area, then he had all the authority he needed to surface his ship and request instructions. I have no reason to believe he did or should have had reservations.

[xzins]

My experience is that it's entered into the record of the chain of command from that soldier up to his company commander. While a captain might not be relieved, a black mark like that in a record will kill his chances of advancement.

Bless you for your service!

Are you still active? My son is in Iraq right now, and we have room to pray for one more soldier named HoustonCurmudgeon!

[CTOCS]

I think we can all agree that this is an exception....

[HoustonCurmudgeon]

Are you still active? My son is in Iraq right now

Oh my goodness no! I only served 3 years from March 1971 until December 1973.

I have a few friends in the service now, and the son's of several are serving. If you will tell me your son's first name I would be most pleased to add him to my prayer list.

[xzins]

Thank you, my comrade-in-arms.

His name is Josh.

[A Jovial Cad]

Yet one more reason I'm glad I joined the USAF instead of the Navy--holding an officer responsible for something beyond his/her control is simply asinine.

[Doohickey]

From what I've been able to determine, CDR Hale formerly commanded the USS Santa Fe. I doubt that he'll maintain his dutues as CSS-15 Deputy.

[AndyJackson]

I doubt that he'll maintain his dutues as CSS-15 Deputy.

It is pretty routine, actually, in such circumstances. He will keep both and only remain in command of the USS SFO until such time as they find a replacement CO. The ship isn't really going to go anywhere, except the yards anyway.

[Ready4Freddy]

Thanks again!

I wasn't suggesting that it was an out for him in future disciplinary proceedings. More like an answer to the folks posting 'why was he where he was, and why was he going so fast?'.

IIRC, hadn't the SF just surfaced for a fix, then been underway again for ~ 4 min when the collision occurred? Can one of ours get to 500 ft depth that quickly?

Accountability cannot be delegated. With that accountability comes authority. If CDR Mooney thought he was operating in an unsafe area, then he had all the authority he needed to surface his ship and request instructions. I have no reason to believe he did or should have had reservations.

[flair2000]

I stayed in Bremerton about 10 years ago during my sub's decom at PSNS. Beautiful area. If I could've found a good job locally, I would have liked to have settled in Silverdale. That is one of the prettiest towns I've ever seen.

[southland]

PING

[gobucks]

Yep. I also liked 'it is a fine Navy day, where every day is a holiday, and every meal a feast'!

[WildTurkey]

IIRC, hadn't the SF just surfaced for a fix, then been underway again for ~ 4 min when the collision occurred? Can one of ours get to 500 ft depth that quickly?

Going to the surface to get a fix does not require any thing special. Just poke the #2 scope above the surface, pull it back in and resume your cruise. None of that "Surface Surface Surface" or "Dive Dive Dive" stuff. To resume, you just crank on the turns and dive back to transit depth. Five hundred feet and 30 knots is easily obtainable in a few minutes. Quicker if needed.

[Romulus]

Are you current or ex-Navy? May I assume you agree with civilian control of the armed forces, or are they an unaccountable law unto themselves?