Slaying of 4 may be tied to (Islamic) religious extremism (NJ Christian family had throats slit)

Bergen Record ^ | Sunday, January 16, 2005 | TOM TRONCONE

[dead]

Islamic extremists may have murdered four members of a Coptic Orthodox family found bound, gagged and with their throats slit on Friday in their Jersey City home, a law-enforcement official familiar with the case said.

The official confirmed that Hudson County investigators, as well the FBI, were "knee-deep" in pulling computer records and were coming to terms with the possibility that the family may have been targeted for death because of exchanges about religion in an Internet chat room.

The official cautioned, though, that investigators have not ruled out other possibilities, such as a robbery gone awry.

Hossam Armanious, 47, Amal Garas, 37, and their daughters Sylvia, 15, and Monica, 8, were found dead in their Oakland Avenue home early Friday after family members alerted police that nobody had heard from them in days.

First Assistant Hudson County Prosecutor Guy Gregory declined to discuss any details of the case, other than to confirm that police have ruled out a dispute the family had with a former tenant as a possible motive. He cautioned against speculating about the motive behind the murders.

"This is a very delicate investigation and one where we have spent hours at the scene collecting evidence and with the evidence collection complete, we're moving to bring in people that we feel need to be interviewed," Gregory said. "It's unfortunate that people are speculating."

But as the theory spread that revenge and religion were the driving forces behind one of the most heinous murders in the county's long history, fear enveloped the city's Coptic community.

Friends, relatives and co-worshippers of the devout family spent much of Saturday wondering how the seemingly upstanding Armanious family could fall victim to such a shockingly brutal crime. Several spoke of Hossam Armanious' participation in heated discussions about the Islamic faith on the Paltalk.com messenger service and threats he received for expressing his views about the religion.

Milad Garas, an uncle of Amal Garas, said Saturday that he was told investigators are probing whether the killings could have been prompted in part by the chat sessions. He also pointed to a passage in the Muslim holy book, the Quran, that details how enemies should be killed - bound and their throats slit, an assertion that drew a rebuttal from some Islamic scholars, but was supported by others.

A translation of passage 47:4 of the Quran reads in part: "Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers [in fight], smite at their necks; At length, when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly [on them]."

"There is a very wide range of interpretation of that, and it depends on where people are in the spectrum," said Frederick M. Denny, a professor of religious studies at the University of Colorado and author of more than a dozen books on Islam. "If they were going toward the extremist side, it could lead someone to believe it is justified. ... There are those that take that [passage] quite literally."

The close-knit Coptic community promised protests if the religious revenge theory proves accurate.

"If it turns out they were killed for religion, then we will [protest]," said Ayman Garas, Amal's younger brother. "We have to be patient, we can't do anything stupid. ... But it looks like it is religion, maybe."

The Armanious family moved to the United States from Egypt in part to escape religious persecution. Hossam Armanious had sensed a rise in anti-Christian extremism and wanted to make a better life for his family in America, Ayman Garas said.

"What I really want to know is: How?'' he said. "We just can't believe it at this point. Everything has passed like a dream."

The details of what may have been said in the chat sessions were not known Saturday night.

Fred Ayad, deacon of the couple's St. George Coptic Orthodox Church, said that the entire community was in a "panic" over the apparent targeting of the family, as well as the murders of a Coptic deacon in December and a Coptic cabdriver in late 2003.

Prosecutor Gregory said the conjecture about the murders is hampering his office's investigation, which he said has been exhaustive.

Copts are Egyptian Christians, a minority group of about 6 million in a nation of 60 million, and have been killed in religious rioting and during attacks on Christian churches by Islamic militants. Coptic leaders also say they lack representation in the Egyptian government and are treated like second-class citizens.

Over the past decade, Copts have increasingly immigrated to the United States. Currently, they number about 1 million in this country. Coptic Orthodox churches are scattered throughout the nation and, while there is no official count, Coptic Web sites list about 10 large congregations in New Jersey and about 20 in the tri-state area.

Islamic leaders said Saturday that the murders could not have been the work of someone inspired by the Quran.

"We are not a bloody people," said Ahmed Shedeed, director of the Islamic Center of Jersey City. "This is not from the Quran. This is not from Islam at all."

Shedeed, who is Egyptian, said his group recently co-founded a social service organization with local Coptic churches, called Egyptian Family.

"We are trying to get religious leaders from both communities to meet on a monthly basis to break the ice between the people," he said. "We meet as individuals, but as organizations we never have done such a thing. We are trying to show that Egyptians together can benefit."

Shedeed said that as part of that effort, he attended Christmas Eve services at St. George's this year.

Asked about passages in the Quran that may suggest murdering non-believers in a manner that resembles the family's deaths, he replied, "The Quran talks about people fighting in the battle of war. It's not talking about people who live next to you. ... This has nothing to do with our community at all."

"The Quran stands very firmly against taking human life," said noted Islamic author Zayn Kassam, chairwoman of the religious studies department of Pomona College in California. "If someone read a verse and used it to justify the killing of four people, I believe that person is unbalanced. ... There are very few Muslims who would support this sort of thing."

On Saturday, the family received mourners at the church, as friends left lighted candles and flowers in front of the home. Neighbors talked of an exhaustive police investigation, with a former Armanious tenant, Nelly Ramirez, saying police had questioned her, her son and her son's girlfriend.

Meanwhile, friends of Sylvia, a high school sophomore who would have turned 16 on Saturday, lingered in front of the house, alternately crying and laughing. They talked of an extremely gifted teen who recently won a trip to Italy from the National Honor Society for a series of essays she wrote on topics such as Shakespeare and Charles Dickens.

"She used to write all the time," said her friend Jankil Patel, 15. "She used to go to church all the time. ... She'd debate people in class and even had a religious tattoo on her [right wrist]."

"She had a lot of friends; she was very popular," said Jessica Cimino, 15, another friend. Cimino and the other girls said they plan to attend the family funeral on Monday and wear T-shirts bearing Sylvia's image to school on Tuesday.

Ayman and Milad Garad and other family members were allowed into the crime scene for the first time on Saturday morning to gather the needed paperwork for the cemetery. They left the home with a briefcase and several other items, including a tank with several small turtles inside.

Staff Writer Kathleen Carroll contributed to this story. E-mail: troncone@northjersey.com

[appalachian_dweller]

>> My Glock 27 has a 15 round magazine. <<

I have 5 15 round magazines for my Beretta 92 and 4 20 round magazines for my AR-10. Plus a few other goodies.

I'm with you both.

[TexasCowboy]

"I'm with you both."

Thanks, ad!

I have 400 rounds for the .50, about 200 for the .223, 100 for the 45.70 and fifty for the Sig.

I'll be ordering more tonight.

Let's roll!

[appalachian_dweller]

Good deal TexasCowboy!

I've got about 1,000 rounds for the AR, 500 rounds for the Beretta, 200 rounds for my S&W 686, and 100 rounds for my .270.

I just hate to run out! It's good to have extra. I heard a rumor that when the plane when down in PA they banned ammo sales. It'll be too late to get ammo after the next attack. Sadly, I have no doubt that we will be hit again.

Like you say, I'm not looking for trouble, but I ain't backing down.

Allah is EVIL. He is actually Satan.

Mohammad was liar, a baby raping pedophile, and murdering sack of pig poop!

[TexasCowboy]

If and when this breaks, which I think will be soon, ammo and guns will be impossible to get as our governmental agencies clamp down on the violence by taking the means to protect themselves away from law abiding citizens for the sake of political correctness.
In the meantime, the muzzies will have all the blackmarket ammo and guns they need to wipe us out.

[FreedomPoster]

This was the lead story on The Fox Report with Shepard Smith, just now. They covered the key points.

[prairiebreeze]

I was glad to see Fox lead with it. The community is going to have to keep it front and center, I hope they can.

[hineybona]

... There are those that take that [passage] quite literally."
Shit , is there another way to take that passage about sliting peoples necks..What crap

[eleni121]

Muslims have now hideously murdered an American family right here in our country...Muslims continuing their sordid and despicable acts of 9-11 and before going back to around 632 AD.

Outrageous...but this Christian family is not sitting back naively trusting authorities to protect us.

[Lijahsbubbe]

Thank you for that article very informative and heartbreaking.

Crazy how they describe Coptic persecution as "clashes between Muslims and Christians.

[hattend]

Islamic leaders said Saturday that the murders could not have been the work of someone inspired by the Quran.

"We are not a bloody people," said Ahmed Shedeed, director of the Islamic Center of Jersey City. "This is not from the Quran. This is not from Islam at all."

"It wasn't us." is not the same as "We condemn the actions of the murderers."

Freakin' Islam...

[rodeo-mamma]

The biblical Jospeph, in the old testement had Epyptian Sons. Perhaps these are the decendents of that tribe of Isreal.

[Bombardier]

bttt

[Bombardier]

....said Sunday that "Muslim terrorists" were responsible.

Being redundant?

[TexKat]

Mourners march down a street Jersey City, N.J., on Monday, carrying the coffins of the slain family members, whose bodies were found Friday.

Muslim-Christian tensions boil over in N.J.

Slain family's funeral turns into melee

Slaying of 4 may be tied to (Islamic) religious extremism (NJ Christian family had throats slit)

Four Family Members Slain With Throats Slashed

'I don't want you to join me, I want you to join bin Laden'(Paltalk connection to NJ murders?)

Jetliner missile plot trial begins

'ISLAMIC HATE' EYED IN SLAYS(threatened for making anti-Muslim remarks online)

Eye robbery in slays - N.J. family's home was looted - DA

Violence flares briefly at anti-terrorism event [Pro-Terror Crowd Attacks Jews]

Theories Emerging in NJ Family Murders (Family cousin translator in trial of Lynne Stewart)

[NYer]

The biblical Jospeph, in the old testement had Epyptian Sons. Perhaps these are the decendents of that tribe of Isreal.

Actually, I think it is more about this ....

Coptic Orthodox Church

[Brad’s Gramma]

Bumping your post

[Kolokotronis]

The Church has long taught that the passage from Hosea is a prefiguring of the return of the Hoyl Family from their exile in Egypt when informed by an angel that Herod had died.

[Boxsford]

nuconvert has been posting here for a while and I've not read anything this freeper has written that even comes close to what you are insinuating.

[nuconvert]

Thanks

[WindOracle]

Got my Weatherby .65 cal, 250X zoom scope, with bipod all oiled up and ready to go... just send me a little help for carrying all the ammo.