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Slaying of 4 may be tied to (Islamic) religious extremism (NJ Christian family had throats slit)
Bergen Record ^ | Sunday, January 16, 2005 | TOM TRONCONE

Posted on 01/16/2005 5:22:26 AM PST by dead

Islamic extremists may have murdered four members of a Coptic Orthodox family found bound, gagged and with their throats slit on Friday in their Jersey City home, a law-enforcement official familiar with the case said.

The official confirmed that Hudson County investigators, as well the FBI, were "knee-deep" in pulling computer records and were coming to terms with the possibility that the family may have been targeted for death because of exchanges about religion in an Internet chat room.

The official cautioned, though, that investigators have not ruled out other possibilities, such as a robbery gone awry.

Hossam Armanious, 47, Amal Garas, 37, and their daughters Sylvia, 15, and Monica, 8, were found dead in their Oakland Avenue home early Friday after family members alerted police that nobody had heard from them in days.

First Assistant Hudson County Prosecutor Guy Gregory declined to discuss any details of the case, other than to confirm that police have ruled out a dispute the family had with a former tenant as a possible motive. He cautioned against speculating about the motive behind the murders.

"This is a very delicate investigation and one where we have spent hours at the scene collecting evidence and with the evidence collection complete, we're moving to bring in people that we feel need to be interviewed," Gregory said. "It's unfortunate that people are speculating."

But as the theory spread that revenge and religion were the driving forces behind one of the most heinous murders in the county's long history, fear enveloped the city's Coptic community.

Friends, relatives and co-worshippers of the devout family spent much of Saturday wondering how the seemingly upstanding Armanious family could fall victim to such a shockingly brutal crime. Several spoke of Hossam Armanious' participation in heated discussions about the Islamic faith on the Paltalk.com messenger service and threats he received for expressing his views about the religion.

Milad Garas, an uncle of Amal Garas, said Saturday that he was told investigators are probing whether the killings could have been prompted in part by the chat sessions. He also pointed to a passage in the Muslim holy book, the Quran, that details how enemies should be killed - bound and their throats slit, an assertion that drew a rebuttal from some Islamic scholars, but was supported by others.

A translation of passage 47:4 of the Quran reads in part: "Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers [in fight], smite at their necks; At length, when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly [on them]."

"There is a very wide range of interpretation of that, and it depends on where people are in the spectrum," said Frederick M. Denny, a professor of religious studies at the University of Colorado and author of more than a dozen books on Islam. "If they were going toward the extremist side, it could lead someone to believe it is justified. ... There are those that take that [passage] quite literally."

The close-knit Coptic community promised protests if the religious revenge theory proves accurate.

"If it turns out they were killed for religion, then we will [protest]," said Ayman Garas, Amal's younger brother. "We have to be patient, we can't do anything stupid. ... But it looks like it is religion, maybe."

The Armanious family moved to the United States from Egypt in part to escape religious persecution. Hossam Armanious had sensed a rise in anti-Christian extremism and wanted to make a better life for his family in America, Ayman Garas said.

"What I really want to know is: How?'' he said. "We just can't believe it at this point. Everything has passed like a dream."

The details of what may have been said in the chat sessions were not known Saturday night.

Fred Ayad, deacon of the couple's St. George Coptic Orthodox Church, said that the entire community was in a "panic" over the apparent targeting of the family, as well as the murders of a Coptic deacon in December and a Coptic cabdriver in late 2003.

Prosecutor Gregory said the conjecture about the murders is hampering his office's investigation, which he said has been exhaustive.

Copts are Egyptian Christians, a minority group of about 6 million in a nation of 60 million, and have been killed in religious rioting and during attacks on Christian churches by Islamic militants. Coptic leaders also say they lack representation in the Egyptian government and are treated like second-class citizens.

Over the past decade, Copts have increasingly immigrated to the United States. Currently, they number about 1 million in this country. Coptic Orthodox churches are scattered throughout the nation and, while there is no official count, Coptic Web sites list about 10 large congregations in New Jersey and about 20 in the tri-state area.

Islamic leaders said Saturday that the murders could not have been the work of someone inspired by the Quran.

"We are not a bloody people," said Ahmed Shedeed, director of the Islamic Center of Jersey City. "This is not from the Quran. This is not from Islam at all."

Shedeed, who is Egyptian, said his group recently co-founded a social service organization with local Coptic churches, called Egyptian Family.

"We are trying to get religious leaders from both communities to meet on a monthly basis to break the ice between the people," he said. "We meet as individuals, but as organizations we never have done such a thing. We are trying to show that Egyptians together can benefit."

Shedeed said that as part of that effort, he attended Christmas Eve services at St. George's this year.

Asked about passages in the Quran that may suggest murdering non-believers in a manner that resembles the family's deaths, he replied, "The Quran talks about people fighting in the battle of war. It's not talking about people who live next to you. ... This has nothing to do with our community at all."

"The Quran stands very firmly against taking human life," said noted Islamic author Zayn Kassam, chairwoman of the religious studies department of Pomona College in California. "If someone read a verse and used it to justify the killing of four people, I believe that person is unbalanced. ... There are very few Muslims who would support this sort of thing."

On Saturday, the family received mourners at the church, as friends left lighted candles and flowers in front of the home. Neighbors talked of an exhaustive police investigation, with a former Armanious tenant, Nelly Ramirez, saying police had questioned her, her son and her son's girlfriend.

Meanwhile, friends of Sylvia, a high school sophomore who would have turned 16 on Saturday, lingered in front of the house, alternately crying and laughing. They talked of an extremely gifted teen who recently won a trip to Italy from the National Honor Society for a series of essays she wrote on topics such as Shakespeare and Charles Dickens.

"She used to write all the time," said her friend Jankil Patel, 15. "She used to go to church all the time. ... She'd debate people in class and even had a religious tattoo on her [right wrist]."

"She had a lot of friends; she was very popular," said Jessica Cimino, 15, another friend. Cimino and the other girls said they plan to attend the family funeral on Monday and wear T-shirts bearing Sylvia's image to school on Tuesday.

Ayman and Milad Garad and other family members were allowed into the crime scene for the first time on Saturday morning to gather the needed paperwork for the cemetery. They left the home with a briefcase and several other items, including a tank with several small turtles inside.

Staff Writer Kathleen Carroll contributed to this story. E-mail: troncone@northjersey.com


TOPICS: Breaking News; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; News/Current Events; US: New Jersey
KEYWORDS: aliens; anothermissedstory; antichrist; armanious; comingtoyourhomenext; coptic; dhimmi; extremism; foxnewsasleepagain; gihad; holywar; islam; islamofascism; jerseycity; jihadinamerica; jihadtsunami; koran; koranimals; mediamissliketsunami; muslims; nicejobmedia; nukemecca; quran; religionofpeace; religionofpieces; terrorism; trop; war; waronterror; whereiscair; whereiscnn; whereisfnc; whereismsnbc; whilethemediasleeps
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To: humblegunner
That's what I've been saying, gunner.

If this war is going to start, let's get it on!

481 posted on 01/16/2005 6:56:40 PM PST by TexasCowboy (Texan by birth, citizen of Jesusland by the Grace of God)
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To: Sunshine55

Seen this one?

Tension between Copts, Muslims also immigrated
The Star-Ledger ^ | Sunday, January 16, 2005 | JEFF DIAMANT and Paul Nelson

http://www.nj.com/news/ledger/index.ssf?/base/news-19/11058567348780.xml

Even the liberal Star Ledger in New Jersey is catching on!


482 posted on 01/16/2005 6:57:02 PM PST by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God).)
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To: dead
"The Quran stands very firmly against taking human life," said noted Islamic author Zayn Kassam, chairwoman of the religious studies department of Pomona College in California. "If someone read a verse and used it to justify the killing of four people, I believe that person is unbalanced. ... There are very few Muslims who would support this sort of thing."

What do they think we are all brain dead? "Islam" better get its collective act together or this so-called religion is going to be wiped off the face of the map. I wonder what Milosevic was thinking when he went after his Muslim national separtists, I wonder how misguided we were to have intervended?
(I still dont believe we have gotten the straight story on Bosnia. I wonder what Bob Dole was thinking when he got behind US intervention in this Clinton era charade?)
483 posted on 01/16/2005 6:58:24 PM PST by N. Beaujon (I)
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To: nmh
And the governor was too busy appointing his boy-toy as Homeland Security chief to bother with any of this.

If the NJSP and local law enforcement had been keeping closer tabs on the local Islamicists via infiltrators and good police work, these people's lives might have been spared.

If you make it hot for the bad guys they don't have time to pull off things like this.

484 posted on 01/16/2005 6:59:52 PM PST by AnAmericanMother (. . . Ministrix of ye Chace (recess appointment), TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary . . .)
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To: All

Could the headless victim be the cousin?


485 posted on 01/16/2005 7:00:00 PM PST by Sunshine55 (Clemency for Darrell Birt NOW: http://www.petitiononline.com/su5nshin/petition.html)
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To: nuconvert
I don't like extremists, zealots, or fanatics of any kind.

That's a pretty extreme position. Do you suffer from self-hatred?

486 posted on 01/16/2005 7:01:04 PM PST by Theo
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To: nmh

They've been talking about it on the news ALL AFTERNOON calling it a hate crime. Unreal. Maybe these poor people had to die so folks would wake the hell up about terrorism and persecuting christians in the ME.


487 posted on 01/16/2005 7:01:23 PM PST by cyborg (http://mentalmumblings.blogspot.com/)
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To: SheLion
Emerson, Pipes, Katz, inter alia, were ahead of their time.

Unfortunately, there are still people who don't want to admit that these folks were absolutely correct about the existential menace posed to our nation by expanionist Islam, whether it be in the form of Salafi clerics preaching in the Gulf or the imam next door, who's probably on the payroll of some terrorist-aligned organization.

488 posted on 01/16/2005 7:01:40 PM PST by Do not dub me shapka broham (Pajama Patrol: Deputy.)
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To: Tribune7
We should require any Moslem seeking to immigrate here to proclaim that those parts of the Koran allowing for the killing of apostates or unbelievers are not the will of God.

Yeah, well, they do proclaim that to the infidels, then they go ahead and do it anyway.

489 posted on 01/16/2005 7:03:49 PM PST by Alouette (Learned Mother of Zion)
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To: Selene; Sunshine55; EdReform; Thinkin' Gal; mrflashrifle; dennisw; SJackson; MeekOneGOP; ...

Have you heard anything more on the severed head?

Severed Head Found Near Movie Theater
7Online.com, NY - 11 hours ago
(Hazlet, NJ-WABC, January 16, 2005) — A gruesome discovery in New Jersey, as a severed head and body are found near a movie theater in Monmouth County. ...


490 posted on 01/16/2005 7:04:14 PM PST by SheLion (God bless our military members and keep them safe.)
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To: Theo

lol.
No. Extreme would be hating them I only dislike them. :~ )


491 posted on 01/16/2005 7:04:36 PM PST by nuconvert (No More Axis of Evil by Christmas ! TLR)
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To: SheLion; Happy2BMe; dennisw; Alouette; SJackson

NO! Do you have any online news sources?!


492 posted on 01/16/2005 7:06:44 PM PST by Salem (FREE REPUBLIC - Fighting to win within the Arena of the War of Ideas! So get in the fight!)
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To: Do not dub me shapka broham
Emerson, Pipes, Katz, inter alia, were ahead of their time.

They sure had the in-site, didn't they.

493 posted on 01/16/2005 7:06:49 PM PST by SheLion (God bless our military members and keep them safe.)
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To: nmh
http://www.nj.com/news/ledger/index.ssf?/base/news-19/11058567348780.xml

I have to register to access it. Can you copy and paste it in here for us please?

494 posted on 01/16/2005 7:09:03 PM PST by SheLion (God bless our military members and keep them safe.)
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To: mowkeka

Oxymoron

It has to be.


495 posted on 01/16/2005 7:09:14 PM PST by Rightly Biased (Ecclesiastes 10:2 (don't be lazy look it up))
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To: Salem
NO! Do you have any online news sources?!

nmh posted the link in post #482, but when I go there, I have to register.  I hope nmh can copy and paste it in here for us.

496 posted on 01/16/2005 7:11:21 PM PST by SheLion (God bless our military members and keep them safe.)
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To: pbrown; dennisw; SJackson; MeekOneGOP; TrueBeliever9; Geist Krieger; JohnHuang2; Salem; Sanch; ...
#419

"Radical Islam is on the rampage throughout almost half the globe with Americans, Christians, and Jews, and American Christians and Jews the target of their unrestrained hate."

"The idea that the murder and bloodshed we have seen globally would somehow be avoided in America as we are lulled by PC liberalism in our government, silencing of dissent in radical leftist imposed "tolerance" and "multi-culturalism," and the loud protests of "bigotry" and "persecution" by Islamist apologists and Muslim rights groups with questionable funding and motives, is absolutely ludicrous.

===================================================

* * *

The Evidence: Chronology of Attacks on the West
* * *

- - -

CLICK HERE

WHY ARE ALL TERRORISTS MUSLIM?

"Unless a man becomes the enemy of evil, he will not even become its slave, but rather its champion. God Himself will not help us to ignore evil but only to defy and to defeat it!" G. K. Chesterton.

In an outrageous attack upon Christian leaders facing the lie of Islam with the Word of God, the National Association of Evangelicals (NAE) issued a public rebuke, sharply criticizing "derogatory statements" made by some evangelical leaders concerning Islam. The National Association of Evangelicals represents more than 43,000 congregations in the United States of America. Specifically, the NAE named Franklin Graham, Dr. Jerry Vines, and the Revs. Jerry Falwell, and Pat Robertson as chief culprits who must learn to temper their speech concerning Islam.

This is shocking! The NAE wants to take the one offensive weapon we Christians have in our arsenal, the Word of God, and replace it with - dialogue? That's right! The truth of God's Word is being replaced with tolerance, appeasement, common ground, reaching across the aisle, pragmatism, and negotiation. "Can't we all just get along?" Of course the answer is, "No! Not when God's Word is the standard."

To be sure, God's Word is confrontational, dividing, judgmental, and absolute, yet it is filled with mercy. Islam, on the other hand, is all of the above, yet it is filled with violence and murder. There is no common ground between these two religions. Islam and Christianity are at war! Neither will tolerate the other.

Unfazed by planes crashing into buildings killing thousands, suicide bombings of countless innocent human beings, mass slaughter of millions of Christians in the Sudan, and violence of unprecedented order, the NAE now wants us to dialogue with the Christ hating false religion of Islam. This spiritually emasculated organization, is espousing that we hide in caves so that we won't be killed by Muslims living out their faith in the streets of our cities. Living out their faith?

The NAE's solution to stop the merciless bloodletting of Islam is to draft guidelines and begin an interfaith dialogue with Islamic leaders. What utter nonsense! Somehow the president of the National Association of Evangelicals, Rev. Ted Haggard, has convinced himself and several others of the good faith of his Islamic counterparts. Haggard is championing the lie of Islam without realizing what it is that he and the NAE are doing.

Ask a simple question, "Why are all terrorists Muslim?" You doubt the premise of the question? Let's just take a look:

  1. 1972 Muslim terrorists kidnap Israelite athletes at Olympics in Munich (14 killed).
  2. 1972 Muslim terrorists overtake U.S. Embassy in Iran.
  3. 1980's Muslim terrorists abduct large numbers of U.S, citizens in Lebanon.
  4. 1983 Muslim terrorists bomb Marine barracks in Beirut (250 U.S. soldiers killed).
  5. 1985 Muslim terrorists commandeer cruise ship Achille Lauro (Mr. Klinghoeffer, a 70 year old paraplegic, was shot to death and pushed overboard in his wheelchair).
  6. 1985 Muslim terrorists seize TWA Flight 847 in Athens (U.S. Navy Seal killed in attempt to rescue passengers).
  7. 1988 Muslim terrorists bomb Pan Am Flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland (all souls killed).
  8. 1993 Muslim terrorists bomb the World Trade Center for the first time (6 killed).
  9. 1994 Muslim terrorists begin the mass slaughter (genocide?) of Christians in the Sudan (more than 2 million slaughtered to date).
  10. 1998 Muslim terrorists bomb U.S. Embassies in Kenya, Tanzania, and Nairobi (264 killed and over 4,000 wounded).
  11. 2000 Muslim terrorists bomb U.S.S. Cole (14 killed).
  12. 2001 Muslim terrorists hijack four airliners and crash them into buildings and the ground killing thousands.
  13. 2001 Muslim terrorists call for jihad in Indonesia as Christians are warned to flee the country.
  14. 2002 Muslim terrorists kidnap Martin and Gracia Burnham (along with others) in the Phillipines. Martin was killed in the rescue attempt. Gracia made it home.
  15. 2002 Muslim terrorists defeated in Afghanistan by strong arm of United States Military.
  16. 2002 Muslim terrorists kidnap and ruthlessly slash the throat of journalist Daniel Pearl.
  17. 2002 Black Muslim terrorist John Mohammed kills twelve in a cold-blooded 21-day killing spree near Washington, D.C. He was suspected of throwing a grenade into a tent housing 16 soldiers in Gulf War in 1991.
  18. 2002 Muslim terrorists bomb a Jewish owned hotel in Kenya (16 killed, 80 injured).
  19. 2002 Muslim terrorists bomb a night club in Bali where many westerners were present (182 killed).
  20. 2003 Black Muslim terrorist SGT Asan Akbar of the 101st Airborne rolls a grenade into the barracks of sleeping soldiers (kills 2 and wounds 12).
  21. 2003 Muslim terrorists convicted of plotting to bomb a Christmas market in Strasbourg, Germany.
  22. 2003 Muslim terrorists bomb US-Saudi company and three residential areas where westerners live in Saudi Arabia (at least 50 injured, many died).
  23. 2003 Muslim terrorists bomb Jewish and western targets in Casablanca (41 killed).
  24. 2003 Muslim terrorists bombard Israel on a daily basis with assaults of unprecedented order.

    What do all of these recorded instances of sheer violence and evil have in common? Islam! Why are all these terrorists Muslim? Their false and murderous religion demands them to be so. There is no escaping the link between terrorism and the Islamic faith. Islam is a lie birthed in the very pit of hell that must be defeated before it destroys everyone who will not bow the knee to Allah and his lying prophet Mohammed.

    Islam must be annihilated, completely. It must be exposed for the lie that it is. Allah is not God and Mohammed is not a prophet of God. Jesus is God, and apart from Him there is no other. Jesus is not tolerant of any other God than Himself, for there is no other God but Him! For the NAE to say anything less is to betray the God of the Holy Scriptures and the 43,000 congregations it represents.

    The Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR), upon hearing the NAE's appeasing statement said, "We can understand theological differences, but what's important is that the dialogue is one of respect, not demonization." Dialogue? Sure, Rev. Haggard, you won the accolades of Islam, but you are suffering under the condemnation of heaven. There is nothing Islam would rather do than to dialogue with you while it continues its murderous onslaught. The Word of God demonizes Islam, not Franklin Graham or any of the others.

    For the NAE to take its cues from CAIR, a front organization for Islamic terrorism, is absurd. CAIR is the organization that came up with the politically correct idea that America should no longer be considered a "Judeo-Christian" nation. Why? Because it is offensive to Muslims living in America. Please! CAIR is that "gentle" organization that coined the endearing term "Islamophobia," and is presently suing American Airlines for wrongfully profiling "middle eastern" looking men.

    Wrongfully profiling? One doesn't have to look too long at the statistics to realize that 98.7% of all hijackings from 1970 to this day were done by "middle eastern" looking men who were all (100% of them) Muslim terrorists. CAIR says it's just not fair to be demonized by the Word of God. Too bad! Unfortunately the NAE wants to jump on that "politically correct" ship that is going to sink into eternal damnation.

    We have three choices in dealing with Islam. We will either be killed by those holding to its murderous tenets, kill them (like we are doing in Afghanistan, Iraq, etc.), or convert them to Christ. Which one do you choose?

    Flip Benham

     

 

497 posted on 01/16/2005 7:11:25 PM PST by Happy2BMe ("Islam fears democracy worse than anything- If the imams can't control it - they will kill it.)
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To: SheLion; Salem; F15Eagle; MeekOneGOP
#490

??

498 posted on 01/16/2005 7:15:00 PM PST by Happy2BMe ("Islam fears democracy worse than anything- If the imams can't control it - they will kill it.)
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To: Happy2BMe
There is no converting them to Christ. They can't convert us and we cannot convert them.

What's left?

499 posted on 01/16/2005 7:15:48 PM PST by SheLion (God bless our military members and keep them safe.)
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To: Happy2BMe

nmh posted the link in post #482, but when I go there, I have to register. I hope nmh can copy and paste it in here for us.


500 posted on 01/16/2005 7:16:53 PM PST by SheLion (God bless our military members and keep them safe.)
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