Empty Nests, and Hearts

NY Times ^ | January 15, 2005 | DAVID BROOKS

[Trinity_Tx]

"Women's liberation, in many ways, has been a cruel joke for the women."

Yes, it has... everyone suffers.

If they do as he says -- the mommy thing right after college -- I'd bet most will give up their career aspirations altogether once they realize how much dedication motherhood requires... I sure did.

But really, I think that's the best scenario for everyone anyway, in terms of both economics and traditional gender roles.

[GodfearingTexan]

feminism is turning out to be such a bad idea i can scarcely believe it myself. who in their right mind opted to believe it? apparently a lot of silly women and the liberal media.

[Prime Choice]

But for others, this longing for the kids they did not have is a profound, soul-encompassing sadness.

How it must suck when the holidays roll around and these brainwashed souls suddenly realize that the most important aspect of their lives was willingly sacrificed on the altar of selfishness, convenience and Leftist ideas of "progress."

Like every Liberal "social experiment," the ideal is trumpeted across the land and the wreckage is only fully recognized when no-one is looking.

[Prime Choice]

Can you really blame someone for being deceived?

Every con game requires a willing victim. This is no different.

[rcocean]

Women aren't stupid. They made their choice, and now some regret it.

Too bad. Welcome to reality.

[FierceDraka]

Wanna know why these cold fish never have kids?

Because any guy who has half a brain knows, knows, that if they decide to, or are tricked into swapping genes with one of these money-grubbing harridans, that she will ruin him emotionally, then divorce him, screw around with Paco the Pool Boy, and use the "family" courts to ruin him financially, spiritually, and socially.

Now, faced with such a situation, why would a thinking man with plenty to offer be suckered into a relationship with one of these shark-women?

Other than social desperation or sexual predation, I can't think of any reason whatsoever.

Speaking as a man who has been there, I have NO PITY for those "Sex In The City" harpies.

(Yeah, I got tricked. Thank God the child support will be over once my boy joins the Marine Corps. He's as sick of her as I am)

[Adder]

"How it must suck when the holidays roll around and these brainwashed souls suddenly realize that the most important aspect of their lives was willingly sacrificed on the altar of selfishness, convenience and Leftist ideas of "progress.""

May be one reason why the Left is so adamantly opposed to the merest mention of "Christmas"...it makes some "uncomfortable" so everyone has to change to accomodate THEM.

[independentmind]

But there is also one big problem that stretches across these possibilities: Women now have more choices over what kind of lives they want to lead, but they do not have more choices over how they want to sequence their lives.

I expect this to change as older women begin to counsel younger women. I've had some interesting conversations with my sister about her daughther and what educational options she should pursue at the undergraduate level. That's where young women really need guidance, much more so than men at the same age.

[independentmind]

Sadly, these days any 22-year-old girl who graduates from college (a) has a boatload of college-loan debt she has to pay off, and (b) will find that most young men her age react with horror if she says she just wants to stay at home and be a mother.

What you say in (b) doesn't just apply to 22-year-olds.

[verity]

"70 percent of these women regret that they have no kids."

What about the other 30%.

[Rebelbase]

Seems like luxury cars, vacation homes and expensive hobbies can make up for not having kids among career DINKS.

[Amelia]

Sadly, these days any 22-year-old girl who graduates from college...will find that most young men her age react with horror if she says she just wants to stay at home and be a mother.

I'm not so sure about that. Many young women I know now are doing just that, including my daughter. She and her husband know she has time to persue her career after the children are older or grown, but children don't stay children forever.

[Lead Moderator]

Don't post links those sites here again. Thank you.

[sweetliberty]

"I'd bet most will give up their career aspirations altogether once they realize how much dedication motherhood requires..."

There is simply no greater responsibility, nor more rewarding career, than raising children. Perhaps I should qualify that. Lots of people have children, but not all parents "raise" them. That doesn't decrease their influence on the kind of people their children will be though, sadly.

[Capriole]

feminism is turning out to be such a bad idea i can scarcely believe it myself. who in their right mind opted to believe it? apparently a lot of silly women and the liberal media.

Feminism is bad, wrong, a great tragedy for this country and its families. But part of its message--the message that women are just as good as men, and should have the freedom to use their minds and talents in a career--is not bad; it's just been misapplied. Speaking as a former girl myself, it's very easy to understand how this could have great appeal.

Stop and think about it. Imagine that you are an intelligent young girl of 20, in college. Since you entered your teens you've been getting the same message: "You're intelligent. You have talents. You are worth something. You can do anything you want in this life: you can be an astronaut and discover new worlds. You can be a lawyer and defend the innocent or lock up bad guys. You can be a doctor and heal the sick. You can be a scientist and learn the secrets of the universe. You can start a business and invent things that will benefit millions."

That all sounds a lot more exciting than wiping bottoms, doesn't it? Can you blame any young girl for being attracted to the idea of using her mind and alents in those ways? Especially if she is 20 and don't yet understand the importance or the charm of raising children. Besides, she looks around and notices that no young men her age are not yet in a financial position to support her and a couple of kids and pay of both their educational loans--the boys have to get their careers underway before they can consider marriage and children. So she jumps on the career bandwagon; sitting in her daddy's parlor and waiting for young gentlemen come to propose marriage is not an economic option.

With all this in mind I support the premise of the original article, that career tracks for women have to be more flexible. I started a new career in my forties after motherhood and divorce, and other women might like to consider this option as well. But it would be nice if we could see it as a norm, after childrearing, rather than as an act of financial desperation. I would like to see our professional schools have as many moms in their forties and fifties as girls in their twenties.

The downside of all that is that the neophyte 45-year-old career women would be competing against men who had already been in that business/profession for 20 years. And they would not have the energy to pursue career and study as well as they did when in their twenties. But no system is perfect, I guess.

[neverdem]

I wonder who posed for the drawing of that harpy, Sarah Jessica Parker?

[Mamzelle]

re: Actually that is when I intend to be home. I have worked since they were babies and have had them in daycare (a very good rural daycare with teachers who have been there since they started 7 years ago) and I plan on scaling back to be home when they get home. I need to be home when they are old enough to get into trouble and need the most guidance.

I think your approach is both thoughtful and innovative. People just automatically believe that its the baby with the most needs because it is the most helpless.

But my own anecdotal observation of the situation is this: It's a lot harder to love a 14-yr-old than a 14-month-old.

People gravitate to cuddle up the little ones. They're just more fun, sweeter, more lovable.

But the teen? People avoid them. They have acne and are horribly unreasonalbe and moody.

Maybe the physical needs aren't as great. But I think you are right to believe that Mom's eyeballs should be focused on the teen.

[Mamzelle]

What if they married men who didn't want kids? My own observation of young men is that they'd rather have a second income . I've heard many complaints from men, "she wanted the baby, now she wants to stay home with it. Now our lifestyle takes a hit."

What if the family she marries into doesn't want her to have kids?

Unthinkable? Not at all. I don't meet all that many older folks eager to be grandparents. They don't like their own retirements crowded or their attention demanded. They also would like the attn of their grown kids on them instead of being expected to play the loving grandma. My own inlaws hated the whole idea of my having kids, and shunned us out of the family when we did. They have other grown kids who didn't have kids of their own, and that made them a lot happier.

' But, now that my own kids are practically grown, suddenly they're looking at their own mortality and failing health, and are nasty and angry that their grandchildren don't "love" them--there's all kinds of selfishness out there.