Posted on 01/14/2005 12:21:45 PM PST by Mr. Mojo
NEW YORK -- There is a nationwide alert to members of law enforcement regarding a new kind of handgun which can render a bulletproof vest useless, as first reported by NewsChannel 4's Scott Weinberger.
The most shocking fact may be that the gun -- known as the "five-seven" -- is being marketed to the public, and it's completely legal
It was a very difficult decision for members of law enforcement to go public about the new weapon, but officers fear that once word of the weapon begins to circulate in the wrong circles, they will be in great danger. They agreed to speak to NewsChannel 4, hoping the public will understand what they call the most devastating weapon they face.
The weapon is light, easily concealable and can fire 20 rounds in seconds without reloading.
"This would be devastating," said Chief Robert Troy, of the Jersey City Police Department.
Troy said he learned about the high-powered pistol from a bulletin issued by Florida Department of Law Enforcement to all of its agents. Troy believes faced with this new weapon, his officers would be at a total disadvantage.
"Dealing with a gun like this -- it's a whole new ballgame," Troy said.
Troy is not the only member of law enforcement to voice concern. As NewsChannel 4 began to contact several more departments in the Tri-State Area, it turned out that officers in Trumball, Conn., had seized one of these handguns during a recent arrest.
"Certainly, handguns are a danger to any police officer on any day, but one that specifically advertised by the company to be capable of defeating a ballistic vest is certainly the utmost concern to us," said Glenn Byrnes, of the Trumball Police Department.
The five-seven is made by FN Herstal, a Belgian company. On its Web site, the company boasts the five-seven's ability to penetrate more than 48 layers of Kevlar -- the material bulletproof vests are made of -- if you use a five-seven, 28-mm armor-piercing bullet.
However, the company said that bullet is not sold to the public. Instead, gun buyers can purchase what the company calls a training or civilian bullet -- the type loaded into the gun confiscated by Trumball police.
At a distance of 21 feet, Trumball police Sgt. Lenny Scinto fired the five-seven with the ammo sold legally to the public into a standard police vest. All three penetrated the vest.
The bullets even went through the back panel of the vest, penetrating both layers.
In a similar test, an officer fired a .45-caliber round into the same vest. While the shot clearly knocked it down, it didn't penetrate the vest, and an officer would likely have survived the assault.
"The velocity of this round makes it a more penetrating round -- that's what had me concerned," Scinto said.
FN Herstal told NewsChannel 4 that they dispute the test, stating, "Most law enforcement agencies don't have the ability to properly test a ballistic vest."
When NewsChannel 4 asked how this could have happened, the spokesperson said: "We [the company] are not experts in ballistic armor."
Back in Trumball, Scinto said his officers would have to rethink how to protect the public and protect themselves.
"This is going to add a whole new dimension to training and tactics. With the penetration of these rounds, you're going to have to find something considerably heavier than we normally use for cover and concealment to stop this round," Scinto said.
In Jersey City, Troy said he will appeal to lawmakers, hoping they will step in before any of his officers are confronted with the five-seven.
"This does not belong in the civilian population. The only thing that comes out of this is profits for the company and dead police officers," Troy said. "I would like the federal government to ban these rounds to the civilian public."
Whereas previously only the bad guys were armed. Brilliant.
This is a quote from the police chief Troy, yet according to the website I looked at (as well as you) this firearm is NOT being marketed to the public, it is available ONLY to law enforcement and military. I posted a link in #8. Is Troy just trying to stir up hysteria?
But, for about $150 or less, you can get a Czech Tokarev that has as much penetrating power.
How about the CZ 52? It seems to use quite a zippy round.
Fortunately for you the same Constitution that enumerates our right to bear arms lists your right to express an opinion.
That begs the question, "Should mere civilians be allowed to speak their opinion?"
When they could get a dozen AK-47s for the price of one Five-seveN, why would they bother? (Especially when a 7.62X39mm round is perfectly capable of defeating body armor as well.)
Ok, now here is the real deal for you guys who think this is a bad thing. Any bullet from any gun can kill any police officer on any day, even if they are wearing a vest. The most vulnerable part of their body is exposed all the time, their head. shoot someone in the head with a .22 short and you will put them down. Kneecap them with any .38 and you will put them down. vests are not a guarantee that the cops won't get killed. Yes it saves some lives, but it is not infallible. If it was our guys in Iraq would not be in danger.
Also, criminals do not buy their guns and ammunition in a store. They get them on the black market. Ban this gun and it will still turn up on the street in the hands of criminals if they think it is any use to them. Criminals don't obey the law. This might come as a surprise to some of you, but most of us here on FR should already know this. They will steal them if they have to, buy them on the black market or modify other firearms to do the same job. Gun bans do not work and it has been proven over and over, the libs simply do not want to admit it. They have an agenda, that is to disarm us all so we can be controlled easier.
I want to see the man who can handle the recoil of a 28mm. Doesn't than make it about ninety plus caliber?
Nationally, only AP pistol ammo is illegal. Oddly, rifle rounds such as 308 Win. are classified as pistol ammo while SS109 223 is not.
The Commie northeast and Kalifornistan has criminalized all AP ammo.
Any criminal with two brain cells to rub together can of course make their own AP pistol ammo in a manner of minutes.
Well, I guess there is only one surefire (pun intended) solution;
Ban all law enforcement and military small arms out of fear that they may fall into civilian hands.
The left must be very scared about security in their little "blue" reservations. Perhaps they need to build walls around their little blue cities and issue id cards to all who enter or live there.
(ala palm beach in the 1950's)
Don't give 'em ideas.
I guess in a perfect "liberal" state, authority is invulnerable. A big problem with libs is their absolute trust in authority. They'd be happier in France, the republic founded on that principle.
Yep, it craps where it eats.
LOL!
But you're against concealed carry laws? What tools are you using when you're attempting to "hit what you aim at," a straw and spitballs?
I've seen that done in a test 30 years ago when vests were first becomming common, and that was with surplus ball ammo. With handloads it might punch a cat III vest.
By the way, this cartridge is the same as the 7.62 mauser pistol cartridge available in the Mauser 'Broomhandle' auto pistol since 1898.
So9
The CZ 52 might actually be the correct model number for the Tokarev - there are FReepers more up on those things than me, so hopefully someone can answer that (or Google could)...
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