AR15 pistol. More energy than the FN57. 
Posted on 01/14/2005 12:21:45 PM PST by Mr. Mojo
NEW YORK -- There is a nationwide alert to members of law enforcement regarding a new kind of handgun which can render a bulletproof vest useless, as first reported by NewsChannel 4's Scott Weinberger.
The most shocking fact may be that the gun -- known as the "five-seven" -- is being marketed to the public, and it's completely legal
It was a very difficult decision for members of law enforcement to go public about the new weapon, but officers fear that once word of the weapon begins to circulate in the wrong circles, they will be in great danger. They agreed to speak to NewsChannel 4, hoping the public will understand what they call the most devastating weapon they face.
The weapon is light, easily concealable and can fire 20 rounds in seconds without reloading.
"This would be devastating," said Chief Robert Troy, of the Jersey City Police Department.
Troy said he learned about the high-powered pistol from a bulletin issued by Florida Department of Law Enforcement to all of its agents. Troy believes faced with this new weapon, his officers would be at a total disadvantage.
"Dealing with a gun like this -- it's a whole new ballgame," Troy said.
Troy is not the only member of law enforcement to voice concern. As NewsChannel 4 began to contact several more departments in the Tri-State Area, it turned out that officers in Trumball, Conn., had seized one of these handguns during a recent arrest.
"Certainly, handguns are a danger to any police officer on any day, but one that specifically advertised by the company to be capable of defeating a ballistic vest is certainly the utmost concern to us," said Glenn Byrnes, of the Trumball Police Department.
The five-seven is made by FN Herstal, a Belgian company. On its Web site, the company boasts the five-seven's ability to penetrate more than 48 layers of Kevlar -- the material bulletproof vests are made of -- if you use a five-seven, 28-mm armor-piercing bullet.
However, the company said that bullet is not sold to the public. Instead, gun buyers can purchase what the company calls a training or civilian bullet -- the type loaded into the gun confiscated by Trumball police.
At a distance of 21 feet, Trumball police Sgt. Lenny Scinto fired the five-seven with the ammo sold legally to the public into a standard police vest. All three penetrated the vest.
The bullets even went through the back panel of the vest, penetrating both layers.
In a similar test, an officer fired a .45-caliber round into the same vest. While the shot clearly knocked it down, it didn't penetrate the vest, and an officer would likely have survived the assault.
"The velocity of this round makes it a more penetrating round -- that's what had me concerned," Scinto said.
FN Herstal told NewsChannel 4 that they dispute the test, stating, "Most law enforcement agencies don't have the ability to properly test a ballistic vest."
When NewsChannel 4 asked how this could have happened, the spokesperson said: "We [the company] are not experts in ballistic armor."
Back in Trumball, Scinto said his officers would have to rethink how to protect the public and protect themselves.
"This is going to add a whole new dimension to training and tactics. With the penetration of these rounds, you're going to have to find something considerably heavier than we normally use for cover and concealment to stop this round," Scinto said.
In Jersey City, Troy said he will appeal to lawmakers, hoping they will step in before any of his officers are confronted with the five-seven.
"This does not belong in the civilian population. The only thing that comes out of this is profits for the company and dead police officers," Troy said. "I would like the federal government to ban these rounds to the civilian public."
Yep...that's a fact....7.62 x 25mm Russian I believe the round is. Does a fair job of defeating threat level II body armor if I remember correctly.
Let's ee, the .50 Caliber is too big and the 5.7 x 28 is too small - I guess there is no gun/ammunition that is "just right". So the solution, of course, is just to ban them all.
---the "round" is ballistically about the equivalent of the .22 Hornet---
AR15 pistol. More energy than the FN57.
Yeah, looks like it's the shape of the round that allows it to penetrate.
You might as well carry the full rifle instead of the OA-93 (the AR-15 pistol).
What I'd like is a *revolver* that shoots my .223 ammo.
Yep...DPMS Panther makes something called a "KittyKat" too....almost like pic you posted. :-)
Correction...people kill people...with guns, knives or sticks...makes no difference.
Really? So if you had your druthers you'd ban both all firearms that fire vest-penetrating bullets and all firearms that could easily be modified to do so? (That would be a total ban on firearms, incidentally).
Looks like Santa Claus is really mad at his reindeer....
The above information is from the National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial.
I don't know if police are more likely to fire second in any encounter, but it seems to me that if they were to train in more life-like conditions, with laser sensors, in uniform, etc...like the military does, rather than standing at a range in comfortable street clothes, they would have a higher first-shot kill ratio...most criminals don't practice regularly.
I could be wrong on this, maybe some departments do this kind of training.
Banning instruments rather than acts indicate a belief that man is not worthy of his own free will. Well, some men are not, but that is no justification for whimsical legislation. The Founding Fathers struggled for the principle that man could and should be trusted with his own destiny. -Jeff Cooper
So here's the media making sure that those wrong circles get the word.
Now thats a PISTOLA!!!
Well after the s** they pulled, they had it coming.
If one follows the advice of G. Gordon Liddy, any firearm can render a vest useless.
From world.guns.ru...
Type: Double Action Only or Single Action (in Tactical model)
Chambering: 5.7x28mm SS190
Length: 208 mm
Barrel length : 122.5 mm
Weight: ca. 620 g with empty magazine; ca. 760 g loaded
Magazine: 20 rounds
The Five-seveN pistol was designed by FN company (Belgium) as a complimentary sidearm for the P90 submachine-gun. The P90 and Five-seveN share the same ammunition, the 5.7x28mm SS190 cartridge. The SS190 ammunition looks like scaled down 5.56mm NATO round and boosts the 2.02 gramm (31 grains) pointed steel and alluminium core bullet to the muzzle velocity of 650 meters per second (ca. 2130 fps) from the pistol barrel. The key idea behind that ammunition and weapons is to provide good penetration against personnel, protected by modern body armour, while keeping weapons' weight, dimensions and recoil at the reasonable levels.
The Five-seveN is a delayed blowback operated, semi-automatic firearm. It featured polymer frame with underbarrel acessory rail. The gun is available in two versions: Five-seveN standard, intended mostly for military users, and Five-seveN Tactical, intended mostly for Law Enforcement users who carry handguns as a primary weapons. The only difference between Standart and Tactical models is in the trigger type: the Five-seveN standard features Double Action Only trigger with long trigger pull and no external safeties; The Five-seveN Tactical featured Single Action trigger with short and light trigger pull and ambidextrous safety switch, located on the frame above the trigger. Both variants are striker fired, with internal firing pin safety. The sights are fixed, with optional night sights (with luminous dots inserts) available.
The Five-seveN is advertised as being capable to penetrate standart PAGST vest at 300 meters and standart CRISAT (kevlar + titanium) vest at 100 meters.
The Five-seveN is available from FN for government or law enforcement sales only.
YYYYEEEEAAAAAAAAAH!!!!!! <== Redcloak, frustrated at this newsie's stupidity, having a Howard Dean moment
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