Police Worried About New Vest-Penetrating Gun

WNBC ^

[Mr. Mojo]

NEW YORK -- There is a nationwide alert to members of law enforcement regarding a new kind of handgun which can render a bulletproof vest useless, as first reported by NewsChannel 4's Scott Weinberger.

The most shocking fact may be that the gun -- known as the "five-seven" -- is being marketed to the public, and it's completely legal

It was a very difficult decision for members of law enforcement to go public about the new weapon, but officers fear that once word of the weapon begins to circulate in the wrong circles, they will be in great danger. They agreed to speak to NewsChannel 4, hoping the public will understand what they call the most devastating weapon they face.

The weapon is light, easily concealable and can fire 20 rounds in seconds without reloading.

"This would be devastating," said Chief Robert Troy, of the Jersey City Police Department.

Troy said he learned about the high-powered pistol from a bulletin issued by Florida Department of Law Enforcement to all of its agents. Troy believes faced with this new weapon, his officers would be at a total disadvantage.

"Dealing with a gun like this -- it's a whole new ballgame," Troy said.

Troy is not the only member of law enforcement to voice concern. As NewsChannel 4 began to contact several more departments in the Tri-State Area, it turned out that officers in Trumball, Conn., had seized one of these handguns during a recent arrest.

"Certainly, handguns are a danger to any police officer on any day, but one that specifically advertised by the company to be capable of defeating a ballistic vest is certainly the utmost concern to us," said Glenn Byrnes, of the Trumball Police Department.

The five-seven is made by FN Herstal, a Belgian company. On its Web site, the company boasts the five-seven's ability to penetrate more than 48 layers of Kevlar -- the material bulletproof vests are made of -- if you use a five-seven, 28-mm armor-piercing bullet.

However, the company said that bullet is not sold to the public. Instead, gun buyers can purchase what the company calls a training or civilian bullet -- the type loaded into the gun confiscated by Trumball police.

At a distance of 21 feet, Trumball police Sgt. Lenny Scinto fired the five-seven with the ammo sold legally to the public into a standard police vest. All three penetrated the vest.

The bullets even went through the back panel of the vest, penetrating both layers.

In a similar test, an officer fired a .45-caliber round into the same vest. While the shot clearly knocked it down, it didn't penetrate the vest, and an officer would likely have survived the assault.

"The velocity of this round makes it a more penetrating round -- that's what had me concerned," Scinto said.

FN Herstal told NewsChannel 4 that they dispute the test, stating, "Most law enforcement agencies don't have the ability to properly test a ballistic vest."

When NewsChannel 4 asked how this could have happened, the spokesperson said: "We [the company] are not experts in ballistic armor."

Back in Trumball, Scinto said his officers would have to rethink how to protect the public and protect themselves.

"This is going to add a whole new dimension to training and tactics. With the penetration of these rounds, you're going to have to find something considerably heavier than we normally use for cover and concealment to stop this round," Scinto said.

In Jersey City, Troy said he will appeal to lawmakers, hoping they will step in before any of his officers are confronted with the five-seven.

"This does not belong in the civilian population. The only thing that comes out of this is profits for the company and dead police officers," Troy said. "I would like the federal government to ban these rounds to the civilian public."

[Smogger]

I think a 7.62mm fired from my $200 Yogoslavian SKS will go through Kevlar no?

[Rebelbase]

Can the five-seven shoot down airliners at 50,000' and sink battleships like the .50 cal. does?

[Kerfuffle]

Yawn... it's the bullet, not the gun. And if sale is "limited to LEOs," what business does ANYBODY have with a gun/round designed to cut through Kevlar (whether they work for the Government or not)?

[JOAT]

LEO/military version which is available only on department letterhead. You won't be finding the latter version on the street in the wrong hands.

Eventually EVERYTHING makes its way into the 'wrong hands.'

Plenty of corrupt cops out there.

[Sam Cree]

"We have concelled carry in MO and it drives my brother crazy (he's a state trooper), says that he has to treat everyone as armed."

To the best of my knowledge, crime rates are far lower in concealed carry states, so unless MO is an exception(?) your brother's job is likely easier and safer. Also, I am quite sure that those carrying concealed carry permits have close to zero violent crime records, so it shouldn't be a hugh worry that some have them.

Beyond that, and more importantly, I think it very plain that our founding fathers intended that authority should consider the citizenry armed.

[Myrddin]

The FiveSeven is quite available to the public. My local FFL is selling them as fast as he can get them. The sticking point is finding ammo. It is only manufactured by FN at this time. Winchester is making some from FN components and has promised to start manufacturing brass in the U.S. soon.

My wife likes her FiveSeven very much. The recoil is similar to a Ruger MKII in .22LR. A little more noise and a lot more muzzle velocity.

[Brilliant]

My point is that there's gotta be a limit. Where is it? Somewhere between a musket and an a-bomb, but there's gotta be one.

[Southack]

"A 7.25 barrel is a silly thing to use with 223. It should at least be 10 if not 14"."

No, energy considerations are for combat. I'm talking about convenience and practicality. A .223 revolver could be as slow out of the muzzle as a .38 and I'd still want it simply to be able to carry a pistol and a rifle that used precisely the same ammo. Many .22's fit this bill. At least one combination of .45's come in both rifle and pistol, too. Numerous 9mm's come in common pistol and rifle configurations (e.g. Glock 9mm pistol, Uzi 9mm auto or semi-auto rifle, 9mm carbine, etc.).

But to do this in .223 you wind up with a monstrous semi-auto pistol. Blech. Ick. Ugh. Let me carry a concealable .223 revolver with the option to carry my exposed .223 battle rifle. Let me use the same ammo between them.

My biggest complaint about my own armory is that I've got so many different types of ammo, not that my pistols have less energy than my rifles.

[Trailerpark Badass]

If you want a gun like this one, buy one of the others. You don't need a gun that is designed to penetrate a bulletproof vest--unless you're a cop or a criminal.

Criminals wear body armor, also.

Or didn't you know that? If not, I hardly think you're qualified to give me, or anyone else, firearms advice.

[Still Thinking]

Actually, shouldn't "the people" be BETTER armed than their servants? We are supposedly in charge, after all.

[Servant of the 9]

My point is that there's gotta be a limit. Where is it? Somewhere between a musket and an a-bomb, but there's gotta be one.

And I made it clear that the limit might be at crew served weapons. If you can't understand what that means, you don't know enough abou the subject to debate it.

SO9

[OSHA]

Arms and ammunition makers compete heavily for the LE market. It would be financial suicide for them to make such ammo available to the public.

[Myrddin]

There is a limit to the right to bear arms. Maybe you'd argue that the Second Amendment includes the right to own an a-bomb?

If I can physically bear it, the 2nd Amendment protects it. Nominally that applies to any arms that can be physically carried by a single person. Your A bomb example is purposely ridiculous. Your weak kneed approach is what gives leftist gun banners the fortitude to repeatedly chip away at the 2nd Amendment.

If you want to win, never give an inch. There is no need to roll over an let the liberal crybabies walk all over us.

[Ranxerox]

From the Impactguns website:

FN Five-seveN USG, 3 20rd Mags
	$869.99   $848.00 On Sale! Suggested Retail: $999.00 Manufacturer: FN Manufacturer Item #: FNH3868900900 Impact Item #: 818513001458 Out of stock, Contact us for leadtime. Accepting orders. (IOM Model shown, USG model has a straight trigger-guard).

[JOAT]

My point is that there's gotta be a limit. Where is it? Somewhere between a musket and an a-bomb, but there's gotta be one.

The so-called 'limit' is whatever a regular soldier has access to.

The point of the Second amendment was to deter tyrants through average citizens being on equal footing with the average soldier in terms of weaponry. So if at some point we are faced with a government that becomes unresponsive and oppressive, we the people CAN alter or abolish it.

The principle doesn't change just because weapons get more sophisticated. Whatever one would expect a professional soldier to field in combat is what should be available to average law-abiding citizens.

[Brilliant]

Might be, but the Constitution doesn't say. Unfortunately, that opens the door for a lot of other arguments.

[Still Thinking]

I wouldn't want to be forked to death, would you?

Oh, I don't know. I mean, if ya gotta go...

[Dead Corpse]

If you can't store it safely, you can't have it.

I'd draw the line at indiscriminate weapons systems. Ie; large area effect weapons. Nukes. Bio. Chem weapons. Only because they are hard to aim and have a lot wider effects beyond initial detonation that cannot be controlled.

Everything else is fair game. 2000lbs guided bombs. MOAB's. Bunker Busters. Howitzer 105mm. 18" battleship guns. If you are rich enough to feed the darn thing, not too mention having enough land to go SHOOT them, then go for it. As for single man weapons, carry it whenever, where ever. Respect a private property owners Rights though. If they say no weapons in my Bar. That mean NO WEAPONS IN THE BAR. Leave it in your car. The Car is your property. Same for employers.

Otherwise, carry it however you want. Concealed or in an open carry cross-draw.

As for criminals. They are already ignoring every gun law out there. Why put law abiding citizens at a disadvantage?

[ExSoldier]

Actually penetrating both sides of a vest may actually save officer lives in the long run. It means that the projectile won't expand thus causing a much larger wound channel, and vastly raising the shock factor. Anyway, shot placement is always key. I don't care if the vest is a IIIA; a head shot is going to negate the chest plate.

To date not a single police officer anywhere in the country has been killed by an AP round. This is gun banner B$ and you, Brilliant Freeper, are buying this pantload of crap!

[Bigh4u2]

So you're familiar with the gun?