Posted on 01/14/2005 4:46:36 AM PST by Arthur Wildfire! March
SPECIAL REPORT [Intermediate Draft-- looking for input]
In Philadelphia, once known as the City of Brotherly Love, eleven Christian protesters were arrested on October 10, 2004, when they paid a homosexual 'block party' a little visit, wielding bullhorns and Bibles, and singing Christian hymns. Leader of 'the Philadelphia Four', as the press is calling it, is Michael Marcavage, who spent a night in jail, along with 10 other protesters. Marcavage is actually leader of a group called Repent America. He is a Christian who may get as many as 47 years in prison for daring to preach to homosexuals, as reported by the Washington Times, Newsmax, WorldNetDaily, local papers in the Philadelphia area, and in several other places.
Here, in South Boston, VA, people are shocked and incredulous that Christians may be thrown in jail for 47 years due to exercising their religion, the South Boston Phoenix has learned [it wasn't hard to find that out, I can tell you]. Repent America is a group of Christians who are no strangers to getting in trouble with the law for preaching, but this time, they got our attention.
The most 'in depth' reporting on this can be found at WorldNetDaily.
True to form, WorldNetDaily made a report just yesterday, "Motion filed for Philadelphia protesters"
"One of the attorneys for the Christian protesters who are criminally charged for evangelizing at an outdoor homosexual event in Philadelphia has renewed an appeal in federal court, citing the Supreme Court statement "Speech cannot be ... punished or banned simply because it might offend a hostile mob." [forced self to snip]
In an earlier report, WorldNetDaily interviewed Mike Shaw, a cameraman who was there.
Mr. Shaw was not a member of Repent America, but the police thought he was "one of them", so they took 'appropriate steps' against that 'nasty Christian'.
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[WorldNetDaily]
..."I had one foot in the paddy wagon," he said. "They were making me take my camera and headphones off" before finally being given a reprieve. The filmmaker said he was surprised the protesters were charged with so many criminal counts. "I've seen a lot of people from where we're from do a lot worse things and get in a lot less trouble," he said. "Everyone thought they'd just get a slap on the wrist."...[forced self to snip]
Link to the WorldNetDaily Report
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What saved Mike Shaw from arrest was when he convinced them he lived in San Fransisco. That's OK then, they decided. Now his film of the sinister Christian preaching outrage can be linked to at that web site.
Also in their report, WorldNetDaily wrote,
'Shaw says he sees the arrest as a "Christian Rodney King."'
Here is a quote from the Washington Times regarding the Philadelphia Four:
Christians face hearing in felonies at gay rights event
By Joyce Howard Price
"Four Christian activists face arraignment ... in Philadelphia on felony charges in what they describe as their "peaceful protest" of a homosexual rights event last fall. The defendants, all members of an evangelical Christian group called Repent America, "exercised their First Amendment rights by preaching the Gospel, and they did it peacefully," said Brian Fahling, an attorney for the American Family Association, who is representing them... [snip]
Link to Washington Times Report
[The Washington Times also reports that the Philadelphia Four may possibly serve as long as 47 years in prison on felony counts.]
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The key word in this entire fiasco is "ethnic intimidation". It is a hate crime law, reports the Washington Times, which quoted Mr. Fahling, who said it was "the most profound abuse of power I've ever seen."
Robert Knight had strong words on this subject. He's director of the Culture and Family Institute. "Even if Repent America infringed on the law, they don't deserve three felony counts totaling 47 years in jail," and said it was "frightening to see religious persecution on American soil, especially in the birthplace of the Declaration of Independence." [Washington Times quote]
Philadelphia was so delighted with Outfest, that they contributed $22,000 of city funds, tax payer money, to help the sodomites along with their 'get together' on an allegedly "public" street. Oh, and they also had 'extremely large signs' that I suppose intimidated the girly men.
The police ordered the Christians to move where they would not disrupt this 'illustrious, gay-la' event. The Christians stood up to 500 angry sodomites and the shouted warnings of police officers. Now, some of these Christians face up to 47 years in prison! IN AMERICA! FOR PREACHING!
One of the charges was "possessing an instrument of crime - presumably the bullhorn," wrote the Washington Times. I wonder if the real instrument of crime was the Bible?
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I took snips to use as a sounding board, found at Delcotimes.com [a local Philly paper], copyrighted by the Daily Times. [My remarks in brackets] Saint or sinner?Court to rule on religious activist, by JASON McKEE, newsroom@delcotimes.com, 1/12/2005:
"Michael Marcavage, 25, of Lansdowne, will be in court today to answer to felony charges of riot, ethnic intimidation (the ethnicity being homosexuality, per state law) and conspiracy..."[CONSPIRED TO READ THE BIBLE!], in addition to several misdemeanor charges. Police have had numerous 'run ins' with the man [HE IS INDEED A MAN!] and, according to one arrest report, found him to be more troublemaker than activist. [THE BIBLE IS TROUBLING, ALL RIGHT.]
Eventually, Marcavage was arrested and hauled away from the party. [A SODOMITE PARTY IN A PUBLIC STREET. THEY SURE KNOW HOW TO HAVE A GOOD TIME IN PHILADELPHIA. A WHOLE NEW MEANING TO 'BROTHERLY LOVE'.]
"This has to do with the content of our message," Marcavage said. "We’re being maliciously prosecuted by an anti-Christian, Lynne Abraham."
[I like that term, "anti-Christian". ] Cathie Abookire, spokeswoman for the district attorney, said the office had no comment other than to say everyone’s rights must be protected. [EVERYONE BUT CHRISTIANS!]
One condition of Marcavage’s bail is that he stay at least 100 feet from homosexual events. [He's now officially a sub-citizen. But in truth, all Christians are already sub-citizens whether we realize it or not.]
"I don’t even know what it means," he said. "It’s ambiguous. Does it mean I’m not allowed to be near gay people?" [He uses the word 'gay'. He's liberal compared to me. Perhaps he should bow with his eyes toward the ground when a sodomite walks past him. I suppose two men, reeking of feces, walking hand-in-hand, would be considered a homosexual event. He better be careful then, when shopping. People notice such 'events' all the time.]
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There is a quote in that report worth remembering:
"When someone is speaking, if the crowd does not like it and there is a threat of violence, you don’t suppress the speech -- you control the crowd," Fahling, an AFA lawyer, said. "The First Amendment serves its highest purpose when people are stirred to anger." [WELL SAID!]
C. Scott Shields, who is representing him in multiple cases, said, "This case is unprecedented. This is the first time the Bible has formed the evidentiary basis for a hate crime. The authorities consider the Bible hate speech."
Here are remarks from the greatest think-tank in the world, the trail blazing forum, freerepublic.com:
[some posts will be added]
...
...
South Boston is not taking this sitting down. Residents of South Boston tell me, if the outcome is not to leave the Christians alone, they will be starting up a petition drive here in South Boston. The petition will include three statements:
1. A threat to boycott Philadelphia products.
2. A plea for the promise to pardon any Christian in legal trouble for reading the Bible or preaching.
3. A demand that the US House of Representatives declare Philadelphia to be no longer the city of Brotherly Love, but rather, "the Armpit of America", at my suggestion.
The South Boston Phoenix will open a post office box ASAP, and encourage any petitioners to mail there.
You can also contact the AFA, a support group of the Philadelphia Four at the following web page:
Quick Load Page for latest in the news.
"As far as the convention is concerned, we believe those people were properly arrested and charged," said D.A. spokeswoman Cathie Abookire. "Every case is unique; every case has its own set of facts." Abookire added, "We don't see [the "Outfest" case] as a freedom-of-speech issue at all."
http://www.philly.com/mld/dailynews/news/local/10586941.htm?1c
"These people were demanding that they go to prison."
I've yet to see any of them shown wearing a "please send me to prison" tee shirt. Lacking that, your comment is as incoherent and offensive as blaming a rape victim because she "was asking for it."
How about the Washington Times?
Be cause it’s misleading. The WND knows that no one’s going to actually get 47 years, probably not 47 days, but makes it a headline. As Clinton said in his “apology” before the nation one evening, “Although my statements were technically accurate, I can see now how they may have been misleading.” When someone intentionally paints a false picture in other’s heads, technically accurate or not, it’s a lie. That’s why the testimonial oath is the truth, the whole truth and noting but the truth, rather that just “do you promise to tell the truth. Anything less is a lie.
Therefore, WND is lying here. “Invented” was being kind.
Also, I answered your second question in my fist post to this thread.
Only if the rape victim crashed the mosh pit of a gangster wrap concert while screaming insults with the N word and dong a naked erotic dance.
When I told Poohbah that they were “begging to be arrested”, I was speaking figuratively. They crashed a permitted gay protest, marched toward the stage, refused police instructions to go to their counter protest area and began chanting through bull horns. That’s begging to be arrested. They left the police zero alternative.
It would ruin the mantle of victimhood and martyrdom.
Whats new with Rush, Hannity and the GOP. After Christians came out in droves to elect the GOP they ignore us like the plague. The conservative party is starting to look better all the time. Eletists in DC are as bad as the tyrants in England in 1776.
I have been to many conservative protests where liberals do the same thing but worse and the police do nothing to the rabblerousers on the left. Give me a break this was nothing more than homos and their leftest paid off govt. officials wanting to send a message to America and Christians. The message is clear Philadelphia hates God, Christians and free speech. Please dont be so naive.
This used to be a free country, with sidewalks open to anyone.
Lets see. They were (1) speaking in public, (2) walking on a sidewalk, (3) refusing illegal police orders.
Golly, send 'em to ole sparky already and be done with it! Such vicious dangerous thugs! (/sarcasm)
I'll reserve my final opinion on this story until I've seen more facts but for now it appears that these people ignored a valid police order and now they want to to whine about being arrested. Everything beyond that seems to be spin in order to create sympathy for their defense.
Unless I see more evidence that changes my current opinion, the defendants wouldn't want me on their jury.
Many free speech cases involve genuine risk of only nominal punishment. Some involve no risk of real punishment at all. In almost every such case it is the unlikely maximum risk of punishment (what "could" happen) that is stressed by the opponents of the law or state action. Why? Because no one really knows beforehand what a particular jury or judge will decide by way of punishment on any particular or in any particular case. It is small comfort to reassure a defendant who has just received five years in prison for chanting a bible verse whie standing on a sidewalk, "Wow, dude. I never expected you to get more than a suspended six month sentence and community service. But at least I was right about you not receiving 47 years hard time."
The maximum punishment is stressed because it is real, not because it is likely. The real but unlikely has a chilling effect on free expression that is every bit as effective as the real but likely.
These people are being targeted for the political and faith-based content of their message, for publicly expressing disagreement with a powerful special interest group. That is abhorrent.
That depends on the statutes they violated.
You need to be very careful in the way that you attempt to create sympathy for the defendants. If the Judge that hears the case becomes aware of all the histrionics you're posting he may tend to make the sentences on the higher end of the scale.
My point exactly. Pack a jury with like-minded souls, allow them to further enflame one another's emotions in a locked jury room, and 47 years suddenly looks like a real possibility. Such juries love to send a message to the rest of society and loudly and as vigorously as they can send it. Forty seven years might not be long enough for such a jury. They might want blood.
It's your own brain power and the brain power of the protesters you need to be questioning. Freepers are not sheep that you can throw into a spin machine to get the result you desire.
She was eventually persuaded to leave, but I’m sure if she didn’t, she’d have been arrested. Otherwise someone would have even lost their cool with her and done something stupid. If it were a dozen guys trying to do what she did with bull horns, I don’t think they’d have walked away from our area. They’d have been stretched out.
I’m sure if that girl had been roughed up, some fanatics would claim that it was because she was a Democrat or a woman. She was also black, and I sometimes wonder if there was a video camera trained on her like these “Christians” had, just hoping that someone would overreact and make heros of in the eyes of a gullible contingent like some on this thread.
Protests are permitted in order to keep them from becoming blood baths, with no one being able to prove who started what. This arrest was no more religiously motivated than an arrest of that girl would have been a racially motivated.
Claiming these people were arrested for chanting Bible verses is as much a fraud as claiming the girl disrupting our protest almost got arrested for being black.
"You need to be very careful in the way that you attempt to create sympathy for the defendants. If the Judge that hears the case becomes aware of all the histrionics you're posting he may tend to make the sentences on the higher end of the scale."
That judge better worry about the backlash. The worse the sentence, the more he falls into a longterm pit of his own making. We will go over his head, and he can become the poster boy of liberal judges. I'm fed up with our baby-killing law. There's no need to draw a line in the sand. They've walked over it long ago.
"Claiming these people were arrested for chanting Bible verses is as much a fraud as claiming the girl disrupting our protest almost got arrested for being black."
So, when homosexuals crash a Christmas parade with French kissing, they will be treated exactly the same as Christians? You don't believe that, do you?
I HOLD THE LAW IN CONTEMPT.
I'm a Christian and if this moron and his crew show up on my street to "preach" with bullhorns I'll call the police and expect to see them hustled off for disturbing the peace, at the very least. Depending on the time of day I'd be inclined to set my dogs on them.
Street preaching and leafletting are perfectly legal.
Being an outright pain in the derriere is just being a pain in the derriere and to say that he is 'preaching' as opposed to terrorizing and just being a nuisance is nonsense.
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