Ping!
"all the evidence the theophobes have that the Founders wanted to bowdlerize religion from America is a meaningless symbolic phrase, fraudulently inserted into an obscure unconscionable treaty that was revoked three years later"
That's funny, such doesn't matter to Dems. After all, the much-vaunted Jeffersonian "wall of separation" was in a mere LETTER which had NO FORCE OF LAW whatsoever! So why not love an actual treaty even if it was revoked?
"It is unfortunate that despite the evidence, mythologies that the Founders were irreligious or wanted to ban religion are considered fact. This is a function of the erroneous revisionist history taught by schools and colleges."
More evidence (no pun) of the theory that if you repeat something enough times, people believe it. Regardless of evidence!
Good find and a BTTT.
These are the same whack-jobs, the heirs to Yankee cranks of New England ( Beecher, Garrison, Stanton, Brownlee, Cady, Anthony, & etc.)the spiriual forefathers ( can they be foremothers?) of the PC crowd today. I hate to agree with Newt Gingich but he is dead on about the re-invention of American history.
History must pass the Roger Baldwin lithmus test of correctness. Equality means lack of excellence. Opportunity means entitlement. Effort means showing up -if that.
Since the 19th Century, the philosophical thrust has been to remove any semblance of religious devotion from the public imagination. Orestes Brownson in 1865 wrote about the threat posed to this country by humanitarian socialists who were attempting to create a godless egalitarian state.
Boy they are getting there.
Interesting thing about the treaty, too, is that Jefferson later went to war against the Barbary Pirates (thus the line in the Marines song "...to the shores of Tripli...").
So yeah, no enmity existed, until they started (or continued) the pattern of terrorism that dominates their agenda today...
Nice article, except that the neologism "theophobia" seems a little off base. The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, and these folk are obviously the fools who say in their heart there is no God.
bump
What nonsense. This "argument" rests upon a dishonest (if the author is aware of it) or imbecilic (if not) blurring of the distinction between denying special rights to religion (which is most certainly the position of the Founders) and prohibition of religion (which is a ridiculous straw man).
Deists my *ss!
I read a source that said that Washington attended services at the insistence of his wife (hardly an uncommon scenario these days, God knows), but did not take Communion. If you don't take Communion, the C of E then and the Episcopal Church now doesn't consider you a member in good standing. Now, whether that's true or not I don't know, but his mere attendance is not a guarantee that he considered himself a Christian.
Benjamin Franklin is buried in the Old Christ’s Church burial ground. This would be an odd place if he were the irreligious person theophobes claim.
People do get buried in odd places. It's not like Benjamin Franklin had the final say in where he got buried.
Theophobes like to refer to various quotes from Thomas Jefferson to deny his religiosity, including the separation of church and state quote. However, they ignore his 1816 letter to Charles Thomson in which he said, “I am a real Christian."
I believe that you'll find that Thomas Jefferson wrote his own version of the New Testament where all the miracles, etc., were taken out, but all the moral precepts were left in; apparently he didn't credit Christ's divine nature. The comment that you quote would be consistent with people these days who say, "I'm a real Christian because I believe [ whatever ], whereas you've got it wrong and you're not a real Christian."
Just to note that things aren't always as they seem.
Moral Absolutes Ping.
Some background about the Tripoli treaty quote that theophobes [good word] like to use. They really like it since that and Jefferson's quote from the letter to the Baptists about the "wall of separation" are pretty much the only ones they have to support their fallacy that the United States is not founded upon religious values.
Let me know if anyone wants on/off this pinglist.
Any links to part One?
SPOTREP - History - Founders
SPOTREP - History - Founders