AG Nominee Gonzales on Illegal Immigration (Confirmation Hearing Excerpts)

New York Times ^ | 01-06-2005 | Federal News Service

[NewRomeTacitus]

Sen. Spector (in opening statements): "The department will have a major role in implementing President Bush's proposals to revise our nation's immigration laws and to deal with the 10 million aliens who are in this country illegally."

"The attorney general has exercised the authority to overrule conclusions by the immigration judge and a board of immigration appeals. And this is an issue that lingers after considerable questioning of Attorney General Ashcroft as to what standards ought to be used. And the attorney general, John Ashcroft, conceded before this committee that it's not sufficient to simply cite national security. And that will be a question which we will want to inquire into."

(Way later after Sen. Leahy dredged up the torture allegations every chance possible.)

Sen. Kennedy: "One is the -- which we talked about -- the state and local law enforcement of immigration laws. You’re familiar with this. In 2002 the Department of Justice reversed long-standing policies -- supported the inherent authority of states to enforce federal immigration laws, and this -- that reversal was based on an Office of Legal Counsel opinion that’s not been made public. And I’ve asked for a copy of the opinions; so have others of the Congress; interested parties have asked for it too. The refusal to -- it’s been the subject of a lawsuit. The department’s response failed to provide the opinion but simply offered its conclusion without any discussion.

I have difficulty finding a good reason why the department continues to keep the opinion and its legal analysis secret, especially since it reverses a long-standing policy that scores of police chiefs, police departments around the country, including many in your home state of Texas, have denounced the idea of involving state and local police in federal immigration enforcement. Last month the International Association of Chiefs of Police issued a report expressing concern. They and others believe it will destroy the remarkable progress they’ve made with community policing in which police have worked closely with the public, including immigrant communities, and developed productive bonds of trust -- concerns raised by law enforcement shared by many conservative and security experts. I can’t believe I’m quoting Grover Norquist -- Bob Barr, the Heritage Foundation all say this could be an unmanageable burden on the law enforcement officials."

So could you tell us why -- quickly as you could -- the secrecy, and can you tell us whether you’d support them releasing the OLC opinion on the authority to --"

MR. GONZALES: "Senator, thank you for that question. You and I did talk about that in your office. This matter is in litigation, as you indicated; there is FOIA litigation about the release of the memo. The conclusions are known. It’s the analysis, the deliberations that went into the opinion that I think the department is seeking to protect.

Let me just emphasize, though, or try to provide reassurance about this.

There is no requirement, of course, upon state and locals to enforce federal immigration laws. This is purely voluntary. In fact, of course, some states have prohibitions; they couldn’t do it even if they wanted to. In some cases the department, as I understand it, has entered into with state or local departments, in terms of memorandums of understanding in order to enforce this. We’re certainly -- I certainly am sensitive to the notion that some local law enforcement people don’t want to exercise this authority. Well, we’re not saying that they have to. But if they want to and they can assist in fighting the war on terror, that’s what this opinion allows us to do.

Personally, I would worry about a policy that permits someone, a local law enforcement official, to use this authority somehow as a club to harass -- they might be undocumented aliens, but otherwise lawful citizens. That would be troubling. That would be troubling to the president who, as a governor of a -- former governor of a border state understands and appreciates the roles that immigrants and undocumented aliens play in our society.

But it is in litigation, and it would probably be better if I didn’t speak more about that."

[FBD]

Do you have a link to that "Bayourod: "I met Atwater, Bush Sr., Henry Kissinger and quite a few others..." quote?
I'm saving them.

He has become increasingly disruptive, and I intend to run him off the immigration/border security threads, by exposing him for the troll-fraud that he is.


See my post #60 for some of his other jewells.

[NewRomeTacitus]

What can I add? JB nailed him as an Old South mint julip-sipping porch-rocker in a white suit with a large Bible concealing his surreptitiously folded Wall Street Journal. Occasionally he'll look up to exhort his "darkies" to work harder.

[B4Ranch]

>>the attorney general, John Ashcroft, conceded before this committee that it's not sufficient to simply cite national security.<<

Where did the 911 terrorists come from? Texas, Arkansas or Oklahoma? Were they in fact American citizens and not Saudi Arabians and Egyptions? Does the FBI have there citizenship classifications backwards?

I am amazed to see Senator Kennedy bring out in public a "secret agreement", however I am glad that he did because the president certainly wouldn't mention it!

>>Sen. Kennedy: "One is the -- which we talked about -- the state and local law enforcement of immigration laws. You’re familiar with this. In 2002 the Department of Justice reversed long-standing policies -- supported the inherent authority of states to enforce federal immigration laws, and this -- that reversal was based on an Office of Legal Counsel opinion that’s not been made public. And I’ve asked for a copy of the opinions; so have others of the Congress; interested parties have asked for it too. The refusal to -- it’s been the subject of a lawsuit. The department’s response failed to provide the opinion but simply offered its conclusion without any discussion.

I have difficulty finding a good reason why the department continues to keep the opinion and its legal analysis secret, especially since it reverses a long-standing policy that scores of police chiefs, police departments around the country, including many in your home state of Texas, have denounced the idea of involving state and local police in federal immigration enforcement. Last month the International Association of Chiefs of Police issued a report expressing concern. They and others believe it will destroy the remarkable progress they’ve made with community policing in which police have worked closely with the public, including immigrant communities, and developed productive bonds of trust -- concerns raised by law enforcement shared by many conservative and security experts. I can’t believe I’m quoting Grover Norquist -- Bob Barr, the Heritage Foundation all say this could be an unmanageable burden on the law enforcement officials."

So could you tell us why -- quickly as you could -- the secrecy, and can you tell us whether you’d support them releasing the OLC opinion on the authority to --"<<

>>MR. GONZALES: "Senator, thank you for that question. You and I did talk about that in your office. This matter is in litigation, as you indicated; there is FOIA litigation about the release of the memo. The conclusions are known. << >> It’s the analysis, the deliberations that went into the opinion that I think the department is seeking to protect.<<

Then our new AG, >>MR. GONZALES says, "Personally, I would worry about a policy that permits someone, a local law enforcement official, to use this authority somehow as a club to harass -- they might be undocumented aliens, but otherwise lawful citizens. That would be troubling. That would be troubling to the president who, as a governor of a -- former governor of a border state understands and appreciates the roles that immigrants and undocumented aliens play in our society.<<

Did this sonofabitch work for El Presidente Fox at one time?

"undocumented aliens, but otherwise lawful citizens." <<

Here he is calling illegal aliens "lawful citizens"!!

If that is the case then shut down ICE!! because there is absolutely no need for them. Why bother granting permission to visit or work in the United States if immigrants and undocumented aliens are lawful citizens!!!!

Marine Inspector, I suggest that you start looking for another occupation soon, damn soon! This yoyo doesn't know what an illegal alien is!

[chronic_loser]

Dear sir:

the best way I know how to say this is to suggest you go buy some ex-lax

sheesh.

DU on the right.

whoulda thunkit.

[NewRomeTacitus]

No, I've personally met those guys myself but make no presumptions to "knowing" them. I was trying to illustrate the difference between my reality and what he claims. According to his posts he hob-knobbed with that crowd as some sort of groupee/contributor. I was merely a functionary in the right place at the right time.

[Plutarch]

Hmmmm, maybe Gonzales thinks of illegal aliens as lower-case "C" citizens, whereas those with actual legal status in the country are upper case "C" Citizens. India has a caste system, we have a case system. But that would be discussed in the classified memorandum, which we Citizens cannot see.

[FBD]

Agreed.
There's a chasm of difference between shaking a high powered pols hand, exchanging a pleasantry; VS having inside knowledge and the connections he claims to have.

[Plutarch]

Maybe your milage is different than mine, but I don't know of a lot of big companies that want illegals.

Diverse Alliance Supports Comprehensive Immigration Reform

April 21, 2004 Washington, DC – Today, a remarkable alliance of business, labor, religious, ethnic, and immigrant advocacy groups ran a full-page ad ….

The ad text reads in part: “We congratulate President Bush for raising the issue of comprehensive immigration reform, (i.e. amnesty)…

The ad was signed by 24 organizations representing key constituencies covering the political spectrum:

Business: American Health Care Association; American Hotel & Lodging Association; American Nursery & Landscape Association; International Franchise Association; National Council of Chain Restaurants; National Restaurant Association; and the U.S. Chamber of Commerce.

The businesses listed all benefit from cheap labor. Illegal aliens help cheapen labor, even if the businesses don’t directly employ them. Also, all those millions of illegals are working somewhere, aren’t they?

[cassie22]

Kudos. Nicely done.

[FBD]

Thanks, it was easy to find those posts linked to in #60, as almost all of his posts are like that.
The "search user posts" is an excellant feature to find out where someone is coming from.

As someone said about "rod":
"To him, illegals are just an expendable commodity -- use 'em up, burn 'em out, throw 'em away, get another one."

[bayourod]

"how did your friend get to be such an expert on the Bush family, even before Bush41 was Vice-President? "

Bush had been running for president in the primary against Reagan. Anti-globalists were a big group. They had glossy wall posters showing all the corporate/political relationships. Bush was public enemy #1. My friend was very familiar with him because he lived in the Houston metropolitan area where Bush started out as county chairman.

[risk]

All I can say is "yep." And what FBD said. Welcome to the new challenge: defending America despite the best intentions of the RNC. FOX news told us that everything would be just fine if we could avoid electing Kerry, but now the real work is left to be done. We're far better off with a Republican in office, but his policies on globalism, multiculturalism, immigration, gun control, and Israel (to name a few) only partially align with what I think a true patriot's should.

If these are assumed positions for the benefit of the party, so be it. But are they? I could be convinced either way. In any case, we need to show the RNC and the President that the rank and file American, who could care less about parties, is nervous about immigration's impact on his job security, his standard of living, and the future of his children.

Citizens are always responsible for educating their leaders in a free republic. The best way for us to do so is by activism and public dialog.

We can still save America.

[NewRomeTacitus]

I also had to reassure them concerning their security concerns and served as a temporary sympathetic shoulder (hey, we had a convenient bar in the joint and I'm a glommable guy). I wouldn't have traded places with any of those people. Apparently one's life is not their own once fame is achieved and micromanagement by seeming strangers becomes the bane of their existence. I maintained professionalism until encountering Tip O'Neal. I'm told (no memory) that I was helped out of the bar while he was still warming up. Only later did I learn that he liked pouring shots into your beer when you looked away! But I'll admit his stories were worth the inevitable headache and near firing. That guy was the living personification of "raconteur".

[NewRomeTacitus]

So what was your motivation? Were you against the "Shining City on the Hill" espoused by Reagan or just moved by the idea that the USA should be a mere state in a world government? I've been talking about you - won't you defend yourself? Can you?

[Happy2BMe]

Are you back from the E.R. yet?

[bayourod]

"So what was your motivation? "

My motivation for what? I was on Reagan's state campaign committee. I'd fought the Bushes for six years. After the convention GW and I were on the same side. As was John Connelly who had gotten one delegate. Bush's campaign chairman, Jim Baker took over the Reagan campaign.

Some people actually believe in winning elections. But people who needlessly alienate large voting blocks will never be winners.

[monkeywrench]

Refute what he said. How is it du?

[NewRomeTacitus]

I hear that David Lee Roth is now an ambulance worker. How appropiate would it be for Rod to see that face upon regaining consciousness?

[JustAnotherSavage]

Going Underground - Barron's
The shadow economy is about to top $1 trillion -- at a great cost to many

By JIM MCTAGUE

AMERICA HAS TWO ECONOMIES, and one is flourishing at the expense of the
other. First, there's the legitimate economy, in which craftsmen are
licensed and employers and employees pay taxes. Then there's the
fast-growing underground economy, where millions of nannies, construction
workers and others are paid off-the-books, their incomes largely untaxed.
The best guess as to the size of the output of this shadow economy is about
$970 billion, or nearly 9% that of the real economy. It should soon pass $1
trillion.

What is largely fueling the underground economy, experts say, is the
nation's swelling ranks of low-wage illegal immigrants. -snip-very long.

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/soc.culture.romanian/browse_thread/thread/1bb41897c2797fca/a037432e6e83160d?q=%22The+Underground+Labor+Force+Is+Rising+to+the+Surface%22&_done=/groups?q=%22The+Underground+Labor+Force+Is+Rising+to+the+Surface%22%252

[NewRomeTacitus]

Your motivation for backing the Bushs while knowing what they're about. If you defied their agenda for six years you should have been honest and told us about it. So what if you caved in - you more than anyone has been presented with enough evidence to support a return to real conservatism and the rule of law. Nothing good is coming from the creeping Balknanization of America and capitalism is on our enemy's list of things to cross off. Don't settle for the privilege of being the last person to be shot kneeling on the edge of the pit while a bulldozer chugs awaiting the order to cover it.