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Chance and necessity do not explain the origin of life
Cell Biol. Int / Pubmed ^ | 01/06/05 | Trevors JT, Abel DL.

Posted on 01/07/2005 7:55:13 AM PST by Michael_Michaelangelo

Where and how did the complex genetic instruction set programmed into DNA come into existence? The genetic set may have arisen elsewhere and was transported to the Earth. If not, it arose on the Earth, and became the genetic code in a previous lifeless, physical-chemical world. Even if RNA or DNA were inserted into a lifeless world, they would not contain any genetic instructions unless each nucleotide selection in the sequence was programmed for function. Even then, a predetermined communication system would have had to be in place for any message to be understood at the destination. Transcription and translation would not necessarily have been needed in an RNA world. Ribozymes could have accomplished some of the simpler functions of current protein enzymes. Templating of single RNA strands followed by retemplating back to a sense strand could have occurred. But this process does not explain the derivation of "sense" in any strand. "Sense" means algorithmic function achieved through sequences of certain decision-node switch-settings. These particular primary structures determine secondary and tertiary structures. Each sequence determines minimum-free-energy folding propensities, binding site specificity, and function. Minimal metabolism would be needed for cells to be capable of growth and division. All known metabolism is cybernetic--that is, it is programmatically and algorithmically organized and controlled.

(Excerpt) Read more at ncbi.nlm.nih.gov ...


TOPICS: Extended News; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: crevolist; evolution; god; intelligentdesign; originoflife; origins; rightforum; wrongforum
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To: Thatcherite
Jericho seems to be some centuries older than Usher's calculations indicate. It's houses have fallen many times.
481 posted on 01/10/2005 9:45:08 AM PST by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch is der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: Thatcherite

I can in no way claim to have all the answers, but if you want to approach the ToE from a totally scientifically point of view, it holds about as much clout as saying that the Theory of Creation is also a scientific matter. Both take a certain degree of FAITH in order to be believed, period. You do not have to have a degree in physics or chemistry to determine that.

The ToE has stepped on, possibly over the borderline from science into theology/religion, because it doesn't take math to figure it out.

It is not a complex question of planetary rotation;
nor a question of why does an apple fall from a tree;
or why can't man invent perpetual motion...

These three are TRUE scientific calculatory theorems, but evolution just doesn't fit in that category. It falls more in line with biology/theology/religion. Because of all of the gaps that seem to be commonplace with the ToE, yet millions of fossils have been found, none have been found to fill the gaps.

You want to discard the items found that steadily uphold stories found in religious material, simply because different religions exist?

What kind of an argument is that?

That only reiterates the proof of thier existance before discovery, not by one claim, but by several.

Anything unproven anywhere takes faith to keep seeking for it's existence; and for the existence of it's "one critical" missing piece.

For those who whole heartedly believe in the ToE:

They will keep the faith...

And so will those of us who believe in the Theory of Creation, but remember, no matter which one you believe in;

Each one requires faith.


482 posted on 01/10/2005 9:50:05 AM PST by BedRock ("A country that doesn't enforce it's laws will live in chaos, & will cease to exist.")
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To: BedRock
Because of all of the gaps that seem to be commonplace with the ToE, yet millions of fossils have been found, none have been found to fill the gaps.

What gaps are you talking about?

Creationism, which has been saying since 1859 that no further gaps will be filled, should be considered the "theory" with egg on its face in 2005.

483 posted on 01/10/2005 9:56:12 AM PST by VadeRetro
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To: VadeRetro

That's because her kind always run around with half-smart guys, never smart ones.


484 posted on 01/10/2005 9:56:52 AM PST by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch is der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: Doctor Stochastic
They give her a pain ...
485 posted on 01/10/2005 10:01:02 AM PST by VadeRetro
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To: Thatcherite
A city that we believe to be Troy has been found too... does that make the Iliad more likely to be true too? Including all the stuff in it about Greek Gods?

Absolutely. The existence of Troy, all 7+ of them, proves beyond doubt that the Iliad is true history, the Greek gods exist and should be taught in school as an alternative to Christianity.

486 posted on 01/10/2005 10:03:28 AM PST by js1138 (D*mn, I Missed!)
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To: VadeRetro

I suppose a date with her would have been an Agnes day.


487 posted on 01/10/2005 10:06:15 AM PST by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch is der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: Doctor Stochastic
Much as I love that movie, it has to be one of the dumbest things Chandler ever wrote. If I haven't seen it in a while, one viewing is just enough to give me the characters and the fun flavor, but I have to see it again to get straight on who killed who. That's because it's got about six murders, including the off-camera pre-story-action stuff, and as many different killers.

What are the odds?

488 posted on 01/10/2005 10:07:59 AM PST by VadeRetro
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To: BedRock
Evolution is a scientific theory that attempts to explain how the diversity of life on earth could have arisen from a single source (the source it says nothing about, that is a separate scientific/religious area).

Science regards explanations as "theories" when they make successful predictions. The ToE has a huge number of successful predictions under its belt. As such it takes less faith to accept it than an essentially unsubstantiated religious assertion that makes no predictions that can be tested. The more successful predictions come in, the less faith is required. The numerous succesful predictions place ToE on the same sound scientific footing as other scientific theories that most people accept. Some religious fundamentalists choose to interpret ToE as religion because they perceive in it an attack on their beliefs. That is a problem with their religious beliefs, not with the ToE.

489 posted on 01/10/2005 10:10:41 AM PST by Thatcherite (Conservative and Biblical Literalist are not synonymous)
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To: js1138

Further, since 1977 there is clear evidence of a universal "force" that the Jedi Masters can control. This also needs to be explained as an alternative to established science and religion in public schools.


490 posted on 01/10/2005 10:13:18 AM PST by Thatcherite (Conservative and Biblical Literalist are not synonymous)
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To: VadeRetro

Well, Chandler was describing Los Angeles as he knew it. (One of the biographies of Chandler that I read pointed out how corrupt the LA police force was in the 1930s. Perhaps the studios had their own security for that reason.)

The original version (seen on satellite at times) explains who killed the chauffeur.

I just finished re-reading the Chandler novels; now I'm doing Hammett. (Next summer, I'll do the Perry Masons and some others.)


491 posted on 01/10/2005 10:16:36 AM PST by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch is der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: Doctor Stochastic

Did they find any musical instruments surrounding one of the collapsed citadels?


492 posted on 01/10/2005 10:17:11 AM PST by Thatcherite (Conservative and Biblical Literalist are not synonymous)
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To: Thatcherite
Perhaps a tuba mirum or even a Marine Trumpet.
493 posted on 01/10/2005 10:21:42 AM PST by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch is der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: Doctor Stochastic
The original version (seen on satellite at times) explains who killed the chauffeur.

The version without all the reshoots and re-edits to boost Bacall's career? It's on the flip side of the DVD.

494 posted on 01/10/2005 10:23:23 AM PST by VadeRetro
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To: Thatcherite
The ToE has a huge number of successful predictions under its belt.

No it doesn't. It consists of a boatload of inferences and conjecture based on a historic record. Evolutionists shun predictions as far as the process itself is concerned, just like they shun the subject of abiogensis.

495 posted on 01/10/2005 10:24:16 AM PST by Fester Chugabrew
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To: VadeRetro

Possibly. There's also a pre-release version.

Both the "current" versions are pretty good. The remake with Michum was terrible, I thought.


496 posted on 01/10/2005 10:24:54 AM PST by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch is der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: Doctor Stochastic
There's also a pre-release version.

I think that's the one I'm talking about. The movie was finished in early 45 but release was held up for nearly a year, originally so the remaining war films could be released before they were too dated. Then Bacall's second movie, something with Charles Boyer, bombed and her agent lobbied to reshoot some of Big Sleep to shine up her star quality.

The new version is nice, highlighting the Bogart-Bacall chemistry, but a lot of good stuff hit the cutting room floor to make room for the changes. The lost scenes generally helped the plot make some sense. Some actors who thought they were getting a few minutes of screen time were suddenly out of the film altogether.

497 posted on 01/10/2005 10:32:54 AM PST by VadeRetro
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To: Doctor Stochastic
The remake with Michum was terrible, I thought.

Mitchum played Marlowe a couple of times in the seventies, I think. I liked one with Charlotte Rampling, but not enough to remember which one that was. Overall, color was nice but Mitchum was no Bogie.

498 posted on 01/10/2005 10:36:22 AM PST by VadeRetro
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To: VadeRetro
I have not looked on the internet at any propaganda concerning the ToE nor Creationism.

1) I have studied the Pangea theory somewhat, and it does seem plausible. This could also coorelate to the Biblical account that is recorded in Genesis that the Earth was covered with a fine mist at one time while Adam and Eve was here.

2) The different races of humans I think can be explained because of their location on the earth. Through migration over x number of years, ADAPTATION and GENE CHANGE caused pigmentation change because of suns rays (UV light) differentiation at different places on the earth.

Start at the Equator- Dark Skin

The further North or South you go, the lighter the skin pigmentation gets, because of less UV exposure.

It is not nessecarilly so anymore because of inventions (planes, etc.)

3) Different languages: The tower of Babel. After God made it so different groups couldn't understand each other perhaps this started the migration to other parts of the earth, thus starting the pigmentation change.

4) When did the land masses split apart? Hypotheses: Could have very well have happened when the Noahchian flood occurred, as the "fountains of the deep opened up," perhaps this was earthquakes that let the water out of the earth, splitting the tectonic plates?

5) When did/How did the peoples get to different land masses that are now seperated:

Ice age?
Land Bridges?
Possibly...

6) The difference in human skulls that is shown to propigate the "evolving" man.
I have watched TV shows on the subject, and some have stated that the teeth changed, the brain changed, etc...

Well, over time, if the diet changed, the teeth could naturally adjust to what ever was being eaten, the jaw muscles could become stronger, bones could possibly take on a small change to accomidate some change, resulting in facial change, reproduction would affect change also.

Climate would also dramatically affect the changes.

Fair enough, but isn't this still a "human", no matter what he looks like? I know of some today that looks like some of the skulls you had on one of the links in this thread.

What does that prove?

My point is, all of this has to have faith in "something" yet unseen to be believed.

And so does the Theory of Creation.

They are not that different.

Both are forms of something held as an established opinion.
499 posted on 01/10/2005 10:36:51 AM PST by BedRock ("A country that doesn't enforce it's laws will live in chaos, & will cease to exist.")
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To: VadeRetro
I liked one with Charlotte Rampling,..

I've never watched her rample.

500 posted on 01/10/2005 10:40:20 AM PST by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch is der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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