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US, China to discuss `anti-secession' bill (Betrayal of TAIWAN continues)
Taipei Times ^ | 01/05/2005 | Charles Snyder

Posted on 01/04/2005 7:57:47 PM PST by nanak

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FAPA also released a letter from Republican Representative Tom Tancredo to the State Department expressing concern over the department's "failure" to condemn the planned law, which he called a "thinly veiled attempt by Beijing to create a `legal framework' for starting a war with Taiwan."

VIVA TANCREDO!!!!!!

1 posted on 01/04/2005 7:57:48 PM PST by nanak
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To: nanak

All this anti-secession talk is interesting coming as it does from Republicans...
More important than an affront to Taiwan, an anti-secession position is at odds with the Declaration of Independence.


2 posted on 01/04/2005 8:04:07 PM PST by Gunslingr3
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To: nanak

It's a good thing we still have men like Tancredo on the Hill.


3 posted on 01/04/2005 8:04:09 PM PST by Commander8 (Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth? Galatians 4:16)
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To: Gunslingr3
"The US' long-standing position is that both the People's Republic of China and Taiwan should engage in dialogue to peacefully resolve their differences, and not do anything that unilaterally changes the status quo or complicates the management of this sensitive issue," the department said.

" We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. --That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."

Unless you live in Taiwan...

4 posted on 01/04/2005 8:07:14 PM PST by Gunslingr3
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To: nanak

So long as we can get stuff cheaper at Wal-Mart, we don't need to worry about little things like this.


5 posted on 01/04/2005 8:08:58 PM PST by shuckmaster
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To: Gunslingr3

Also at odds with the American belief systems is communism...along with persecutions (jailing, torture, seizure of property, without due process etc. etc.) of Christians and those of the pro democracy movement.


6 posted on 01/04/2005 8:09:58 PM PST by joesnuffy (Moderate Islam Is For Dilettantes)
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To: Gunslingr3
We have voiced to the world and people of Iraq our commitment to insuring free, democratic elections in Iraq.

We should voice a similar commitment to the world and to the people of Taiwan that we will insure that they continue to have free, democratic elections in Taiwan.
7 posted on 01/04/2005 8:17:57 PM PST by Dat Mon (will work for clever tagline)
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To: Dat Mon
We have voiced to the world and people of Iraq our commitment to insuring free, democratic elections in Iraq. We should voice a similar commitment to the world and to the people of Taiwan that we will insure that they continue to have free, democratic elections in Taiwan.

I don't care whether we guarantee free elections anywhere (I'd prefer we didn't). But I really don't like the idea of advocating a foreign policy that so directly repudiates the Declaration of Independence.

8 posted on 01/04/2005 8:21:03 PM PST by Gunslingr3
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To: nanak

the problem is that--out of power in Taiwan-- the Koumintang is selling out taiwan to the mainland. the country is basically losing interest in being independent. and the US therefor is less willing to supply advanced weapons that might fall into the hands of the pla. this reinforces the upper military hand of the mainland chinese which further demoralizes the independence minded taiwanese.


9 posted on 01/04/2005 8:25:28 PM PST by ckilmer
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To: nanak

The illegal immigration issue and this issue may bring Bush much sorrow in the new year from the right.


10 posted on 01/04/2005 8:27:09 PM PST by pikecountyrepublican ("It is better to be feared than loved, if you cannot be both. - Machiavelli)
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To: nanak

"More recently, Powell expressed no "immediate" concern over China's latest defense white paper, which declared that the aim of China's military modernization was to crush Taiwan's attempts to become independent. "
***This might be the crux of the change in policy towards China. The Bush administration doesn't want to see a military buildup aimed towards the reintegration of Taiwan. If they can give Taiwan over peacefully, they might not be facing the prospect of a built up, invigorated and equipped offensive Chinese Army and Navy.

I recently asked my father-in-law, who was born in China, what he thought of these developments. He said that he supported it, he didn't support Taiwanese independence because he was Chinese. Basically it's typical of kuomintong Chinese who are racist in their approach towards the Taiwanese. They support democratic independence everywhere in the world except Taiwan. They have a pie-in-the-sky view that the Chinese can be overcome by the economic opening of the society similar to what happened between east and west Germany. One of the things he conveniently neglects is that the Berlin wall fell down due to strong resilience on the part of the Reagan administration and Neutron warhead rollout/implementation in West Germany.

This whole thing gives me a sickening feeling.


11 posted on 01/04/2005 8:28:44 PM PST by Kevin OMalley (No, not Freeper#95235, Freeper #1165: Charter member, What Was My Login Club.)
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To: Gunslingr3
"I don't care whether we guarantee free elections anywhere (I'd prefer we didn't). But I really don't like the idea of advocating a foreign policy that so directly repudiates the Declaration of Independence."

Hey I agree with you.

I'm arguing from a standpoint of policy consistency...we advocate freedom for Iraq as a means of advancing our style of government, as established by the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence. Thats fine.

Lets be consistent with Taiwan.

Just a different flavor on what you are saying.
12 posted on 01/04/2005 8:32:36 PM PST by Dat Mon (will work for clever tagline)
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To: Dat Mon
Lets be consistent with Taiwan.

We have been consistent with Taiwan. But sometimes people say stupid things at stupid times (ie the Armitage statement) and certain cultures throw hissy fits. I am certain that the purpose for these meeting is to quietly explain to the PRC how "unproductive" this law will be to relations. And hopefully, afterwards it will quietly go away as the rhetoric dies down for the n'th time in 50 years.

13 posted on 01/04/2005 8:51:52 PM PST by Magnum44 (Terrorism is a disease, precise application of superior force is the ONLY cure)
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To: nanak

VIVA TANCREDO!!

I agree!

The State Department is perhaps the most treasonous acgency within our own government. Its members are more against Conservatives than they are against enemies of the United States.

14 posted on 01/04/2005 8:54:44 PM PST by Paul_Denton
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To: ckilmer
the country is basically losing interest in being independent

No. This is not accurate.

15 posted on 01/04/2005 8:57:14 PM PST by tallhappy (Juntos Podemos!)
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To: Magnum44
We have been consistent with Taiwan

No. If quoted correctly Armitage is not consistent and is not reflecting thirty plus years of stated policy.

I disagree with the consistent policy you reference, but in this case Armitage is definitely not consistent with it.

16 posted on 01/04/2005 8:59:05 PM PST by tallhappy (Juntos Podemos!)
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To: Magnum44
And hopefully, afterwards it will quietly go away as the rhetoric dies down for the n'th time in 50 years.

What do you mean by "it"?

17 posted on 01/04/2005 9:00:00 PM PST by tallhappy (Juntos Podemos!)
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To: tallhappy
If quoted correctly Armitage is not consistent and is not reflecting thirty plus years of stated policy.

Armitage's statement was poorly worded and could easily be seen as inconsistent. Again, he is a diplomat who said, in most everyones opinion, the wrong thing at the wrong time. His statement however, does not automatically change policy. The policy, which weve discussed way to much over the last week, has been consistent. If TW is attacked without provocation, we will defend her.

18 posted on 01/04/2005 9:06:44 PM PST by Magnum44 (Terrorism is a disease, precise application of superior force is the ONLY cure)
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To: tallhappy

"it" being the proposed law by the PRC


19 posted on 01/04/2005 9:08:13 PM PST by Magnum44 (Terrorism is a disease, precise application of superior force is the ONLY cure)
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To: Magnum44
If TW is attacked without provocation

This has never been policy, per se.

And the caveat about "provocation" is new and ad hoc.

There is no consistency or coherence.

20 posted on 01/04/2005 9:09:03 PM PST by tallhappy (Juntos Podemos!)
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