GOP, You Are Warned

AEI ^ | 29 dec 04 | David Frum

[Fatalis]

Now I more fully understand why the Bush proposal really fueled the increase in the illegal flow. The reward for having secured an illegal job in the US when "the future" hits, and one can't get a guest worker card anymore, simply by being employed illegally, is simply HUGE.

"If you can make 50 cents in the heart of Mexico, for example, or make $5 here in America, $5.15, you're going to come here if you're worth your salt, if you want to put food on the table for your families."

President George W. Bush, 10/13/2004

That makes the illegals sound more praiseworthy than those who didn't break our laws.

[txdoda]

You people oppose President Bush's plan.

That's because it another *amnesty* for the illegal employers, & *another* legal "line jump" for the illegals.

What about the ANCHOR BABIES ??? What about health insurance ??

What about 8 million (PLUS) now legally able to file for nice fat EIC checks every January ???

I read that the *average* EIC check runs $ 1700......& tops out at $4000 Plus.

[Matchett-PI]

You're welcome!

[general_re]

Well, if you have some links to contrary estimates from reliable sources, that would be great.

Perhaps, before anyone takes it particularly seriously, you should establish that this 80% estimate is something that ought to be taken seriously, rather than shifting the burden of proof by requesting that others disprove your position.

[Fatalis]

Rubbish. Many an American has taken many a construction job.

Let me clarify (though I thought my contrasting populations were clear):

Between illegal aliens and foreign nationals who haven't broken our laws, "only illegals could take those illegal jobs."

Therefore the illegals who are illegally employed have an advantage in the President's guest worker program. Their acceptance is guaranteed from the start. That is not true of law abiding foreign nationals.

[investigateworld]

re: Once wage compliance is being checked....
That's where the OBL gang loses. It would take 200,000 well paid federal employees to keep everything on the level. No way is congress going to spend that kid of money.

[Sam the Sham]

Would you please repost this five more times ?

Such basic common sense and simple arithmetic seems to elude those who babble about "making America laugh at Shrillery" or think this wedge issue couldn't split the GOP wide open.

[FBD]

bumping this thread.

[BlackElk]

Your first paragraph is au currant on The New Republic Left. Why WON'T those ignorant redstate Jesus folks vote their REAL interests---their ECONOMIC interests????? We'll give you a nice healthcare plan! How about prescription drugs for your pet aardvark? How about recreational drugs for you? We are your liberal friends and WE CARE about you! It Takes a Village to Grow your Weed! Wait until Hillary offers up a federal sexcare program to guarantee well-paid and federally inspected "partners" for the otherwise unindulgeable!

Because we believe in God, understand that life on earth is quite temporary, do not think murder is justified by the pre-birth age of the victim, know that there can NEVER be such a thing as an actual "gay" "marriage", know that money is only money and are satisfied that it not be taxed too heavily, know that there are reasons why we have a military (to kill bad people and break their things), understand that whatever goes on in public skewels is not necessarily describable as "education", love our families far more than we will ever love ANY government and know that the 2nd Amendment exists to keep our gummint more honest and less threatening than it would otherwise be. We also know that a bad day of hunting, fishing or baseball or football watching beats a good day of hanging around some latte shop soaking up windtunnel poetry written and read by feminazi sobsisters.

Let's make sure that the Demonrats are limited to coastal and metrosexual latte guzzlers. We can do this by waging a little social issue and ethnic warfare. Ridding Americans of the NAFTA, GATT, WTO nuisances and other means of enriching Euroweenies and Chicoms may raise the cost of living for the latte crowd but it is well-worth doing. We do not have to machine gun the mamacitas at the border with Mexico on Live (so to speak) at Five.

[Sam the Sham]

You hate America that much and you call yourself conservative ?

You have the mentality of a terrorist.

[bahblahbah]

Wall the border and we solve so many problems. Less drugs and less worry of terrorists. Then we can properly regulate by skills and nationality the people that come into this country.

[txdoda]

The carrot will win what the stick will not.

So should we offer up a *carrot* to all tax evaders (criminals), or just the illegal ones & their employers ???

Funny gov't always seems to think the *stick* works better for citizen criminals (tax evaders, etc.)

Mandatory workplace registrations won't work.

Gov't didn't seem to have any trouble SHOVING mandatory mental health checks for our kids down OUR throats.

[Regulator]

Man Bites Dog! David Frum gets religion on immigration.

Better late than never.

[Torie]

If you read my posts, you would see I said it was my recollection, and my primary interest was in just getting it right. I carry no particular brief for the 80% number, and would be delighted if it were wrong. Indeed, I did find in the last few minutes a Washington Times piece that put the estgimated number at a "mere" 25% increase from the first quarter of 2003 vis a vis the first quarter of 2004.

Whatever the number, the incentive to get into the US illegally, and get a job, any job, before the cutoff date, whatever that might be, at this point is clear and compelling as long as it appears that this aspect of the Bush plan has some prospect of passage.

Speaking of cut off dates, just how will the government determine when the illegal applying for guest worker status got his illegal job, particuarly off the books jobs? That strikes me as a rather difficult provision to administer. That strikes me as a source of litigation in fact. Lawyers that speak Spanish will be in high demand.

[Sam the Sham]

And you're not Jehovah, by the way. You're not even Jeremiah. So go easy on the fiery wrath.

[Congressman Billybob]

I had thought about the angle you mention. It keys into the Bush strategy in this election, in which he won the record level of support from Hispanic voters. There is also a "don't throw me in the brier patch" angle.

Maybe Bush has in mind a serious fall back position "because of Congressional resistance." The process of "accepting" the much lower level of accommodation for Mexican illegals will have the fringe benefit of separating Hillary! from her political base.

John / Billybob

[general_re]

If you read my posts, you would see I said it was my recollection, and my primary interest was in just getting it right.

Fair enough.

Speaking of cut off dates, just how will the government determine when the illegal applying for guest worker status got his illegal job, particuarly off the books jobs? That strikes me as a rather difficult provision to administer. That strikes me as a source of litigation in fact.

Obscenity statutes and the tax code strike me the same way, and yet I notice that they exist regardless. Since when has difficulty of administration impeded legislatures?

Lawyers that speak Spanish will be in high demand.

I knew those Berlitz people were behind this somehow ;)

[NJ_gent]

"Then let the small guys get a piece of the action in the states with each state having ten private contractors who will securely hook into Wash DC and relay the results to employers"

There's no reason why this would have to be a single company. In fact, pushing this on a single company causes you to lose fault tolerance, and opens you up to fraud. If there are, say, 5 major companies who specialize in this, then the chances of faulty information or faulty corporate leadership causing disruption are minimized. Fault tolerance (both in terms of data fault and company availability/existence fault) would be crucial to acceptance of any such system. Obviously, if Corporation X has all the cards, and it later has massive financial problems, our options are limited to bailing out Corporation X with taxpayer dollars or watching the entire system collapse. With the fines in place, the free market will organize itself all on its own. The only thing we need from government is enforcement of the fines against those hiring illegals and regulations protecting the privacy of Americans.

"Fines have to be large enough to deter employing illegal aliens so you can't get a leg up on your competition"

I propose the fines be a percentage of the gross revenue for the company for the previous year. While this may seem unfair at first, the difference in size between companies can make a huge difference in the effectiveness of the fines. In other words, if we fine Joe's Tires $1 million, Joe's Tires is done. If we fine Walmart the same amount, it's likely they'll look for better ways to hide their illegal hirees, rather than be deterred. I think, perhaps, 5% of a company's gross revenue for the previous year should be sufficient to punish every company to the point that they'll think twice about hiring illegals. Joe's Tires takes a $10,000 hit for hiring an illegal, which damn near kills the business, and Walmart takes an enormous (I'm guessing tens of millions?) hit for hiring that same illegal. Joe's not going to be hiring any more illegals (lest he lose the business altogether), and Walmart's stockholders are going to start showing up at board meetings looking for blood.

[Matchett-PI]

"What's the date of Hillary Clinton's last positive citation of Saul Alinsky?"

You still don't "get it". I don't ride in the boats of one-armed boat-rowers more than a couple of laps. I'm outta your boat.

[FederalistVet]

Everyone please remember that many of the so called "illegals" are descendants of the people we ran out of this country at the point of a bayonet.