GOP, You Are Warned

AEI ^ | 29 dec 04 | David Frum

[AndyJackson]

Currently unregistered, anonymous illegals aren't being paid union scale in urban areas, which is why they are being hired in the first place. Register them with the government, register their employers with the government, and suddenly the employer has to choose between hiring a legal American at union scale (for your construction situation) or an illegal at union scale.

Again, I think that your premise is wrong, at least in the construction industry. Suppose the situation were different - that the number of skilled Americans willing to work on construction jobs is inadequate to the demand. After all, this is not unprecedented in history which is why we brought in the Irish and the Chinese.

You forget - the middle class dream in America is to send your children to college to learn a profession, not to work steel on a construction site. It isn't just about wages. Hell, a guy working steel at 400 ft probably gets paid a lot more than I do. I am not going to sign up.

[JustAnotherSavage]

"Does a lie suddenly become "truth" to you if enough people repeat it to you?


Hey, just because you fall in that category......

I see the problems in front of my face. You refuse to. So you're calling 100 republican congressmen liars? Why would they "turn" on Bush? They ALL supported him, too bad he can't do the same.

Snip...


How did it happen that approximately 1 million immigrant workers are to be found in Greece? The death of Enver Hoxha in 1985 and the subsequent opening of the borders had a dramatic effect on the immigrant supply from Albania, the major nation involved. And the break-ups of the Soviet Union and Yugoslavia also had an effect on driving Russian, Ukrainian, Bulgarian, Macedonian and others southward. The demand was there, as well; as Greeks began to enjoy a more upscale lifestyle in the 1980’s and 90’s, menial labor and agriculture began to seem less enticing as job options. To keep operations cost-effective for farmers, restaurant owners and building contractors, it thus became necessary to hire illegal immigrants. In this way, the businessmen could get the work done cheaply, deftly avoiding having to pay taxes and health insurance for the workers.

Now, however, the long-term effects of this short-sighted policy are about to be felt. Illegal immigrants have established a foothold, and the Greeks seem almost willfully ignorant of the ramifications of this process.


In the end, if the Greeks are unhappy about the perceived negative effect economic migrant workers have on their quality of life, they will have only their own greed to blame for the problem. Sure, it seems to make economic sense to keep things cheap by not paying worker taxes. And having reached a certain economic strata, a culture can also attempt to justify no longer participating in certain kinds of labor. But in the end, everything has a price, much as the Greeks may want to avoid it.

And so, if Greece’s right-wing politicians really want to deport all Albanians, as they have declared, they will want to consider who is going to take their places pouring concrete, mopping floors, cleaning toilets and laying bricks. It’s doubtful that the much-vaunted Greek national pride goes so far as to engage in such activities.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1311372/posts

[jpsb]

"The workers under temporary status must pay a one-time fee to register in the program, abide by the rules, and return home after their period of work expires. There would be an opportunity for renewal."

Not clear to me that workers will be required to return home, the phase "There would be an opportunity for renewal." Doesn't make it clear renewal requires returning home." Could be, then again maybe not. I wait for a real plan to be presented, seems all we have so far is talking points. But I definately get the feeling Bush cares more about the illegal Mexican then Americans.

[Fatalis]

Fatalis: Without being legalized the illegals can't apply for green cards and citizenship at all.

Southack: Do you also kid yourself that our existing system won't let them get driver's licenses and Social Security cards, too?!

If illegal aliens can get green cards and citizenship now, why do they need this guest worker program to get legalized?

[FBD]

bookmarked

[txdoda]

Illegals, under Bush's plan, have to register with the federal government, they have to register their family, and they have to register their employer.

LOL......the mexican gov't can't even get all our illegals to *register*, I guess, they're still pushing those sham ID cards here.

LOL......and you *know* all illegal employers now want to register ??

Then they have to pay a fine.

Pay your *mordida* & the US gov't will allow you to *legally* line jump. (AGAIN)

and they have to self-deport themselves

and their *anchor babies* too ??? they don't obey our laws now, why would they *then* ???

So what do we legal American citizens get? We get 8 million currently anonymous illegals....

who come next January will be able to file *legally* for 8 million (plus) child tax credits & fat EIC checks, (compliments of the US taxpayers).

[Southack]

In other words, they oppose President Bush's plan because they know it will work. They know that illegals will register under that plan and that employers will then hire less and less of them due to the wage incentive disappearing. - Southack

"Hogwash. A retired INS agent disagrees with you, plus about 85% of the public. They are not going to give up free public services to start paying taxes!"

You've misundestood what I've told you. I'm talking about legal American employers. Once legal American employers have to pay the same wage to either illegals or to legal American citizens, the hiring of illegals will decline.

How do we get to that point? By registering illegal aliens with our government so that do-gooders and union goons can verify that everyone is being paid union scale or minimum wage, be they illegal aliens or legal American citizens.

Without registering illegals and their employers (e.g. the system as it stands today), employers can get away with paying illegals sub-minimum wage or sub-union scale.

Under President Bush's plan, those illegals register themselves and their employers with the government. Once registered, wages can be checked for union scale and minimum wage compliance.

Once wage compliance is being checked, the *incentive* for employers to hire illegals goes away.

[winker]

The total seriousness of the Immigration Problem does not lend itself for any kind of socialist explanation of what it brings with it! It is "BROWN TROUBLE" with a U.S. Presidential Seal of Approval in a neatly wrapped package of Representative Refusal to act in the PEOPLES vested interests. Some things are so off the wall that only those mouth breathers out there,who need help to chew their bubble gum. All it will take is one moment of inattention and then its too late "bad bills " get passed and passed on to much worse situations. The people must be heard on this issue and the sooner the better!

[Dane]

bookmarked

Whaa? Harold Ickes couldn't bookmark the meltdown of hillary's immigration startegy himself.

[Fatalis]

Not clear to me that workers will be required to return home, the phase "There would be an opportunity for renewal." Doesn't make it clear renewal requires returning home." Could be, then again maybe not.

Consider that the big issue over the Bush plan is that it legalizes illegal aliens by admitting them into a guest worker plan without requiring them to return home.

How reasonable is it to believe that the plan would require legal guest workers return home when it doesn't ask it of illegal aliens?

[Southack]

"The stipulation against receiving an unfair advantage is wordplay. Legalized illegal aliens would have to get "behind those who are already in line" for citizenship, after jumping the line for guest workers."

Why would you spout such nonsense? What's your source?

[bimbo]

I may actually vote for Hillary IF she actually does something to stop illegal immigration

She won't actually oppose illegal immigration, but she will campaign that way.

[jpsb]

If the plan is as Southack presented then I could live with it if the problem of enforcemnet is seriously addressed. We tried this in 86 and it did not work because of enforcement. Law enforcement need to be given the tools to enforce the law. Without enforcement this plan or any other plan will fail.

[Fatalis]

To be accepted into the President's guest worker plan an illegal alien has to have an illegal job, while a legit guest worker applicant has to find an legit employer. The job held by the illegal alien was never available to the law abiding applicant, therefore legalizing them on the basis of entering illegally and working illegally secures for them the advantages they gained by breaking those laws. Illegal aliens would have a head start in the President's guest worker plan because they jumped the line.

The advantage they gained from jumping that first line would carry on as they moved to the green card and citizenship lines.

[txdoda]

we suddenly get a way to enforce our minimum wage laws.......SH

AJ...."You need a lot more than minimum wage in major metropolitan areas just to put a roof over your head and feed yourself."

How True !!........illegals in CA must be making BIG,tax free, bucks (plus freebies) or they wouldn't have been able to invade one of our most EXPENSIVE states to live in.

[Southack]

"The job held by the illegal alien was never available to the law abiding applicant..."

Source?

[Sam the Sham]

If the laws themselves are racist and anti-Mexican, then enforcement is, on its face,..... Well, you know.

We live in a democracy where laws are created by public vote of elected representatives after public debate. If you do not like programs that the American people lawfully enacted that it is for you to persuade the American people to change them, not to lawlessly set out to bankrupt and destroy this country in the hope of refashioning it in your image. I can see that from your heroic, superior Ayn Rand superman perspective the "snow boarding, lavender" Americans of the Southwest are unfit to live because of their refusal to relinquish "socialistic" programs and public education. Obviously in your view such weaklings (which I suspect for you embraces 90% of Americans) should be ethnically cleansed from your America.

Leaving aside your feigned anti-racism, what strikes me about you and other pro-illegal types is that you want an America more like Latin America. You want an America in which life and labor are cheap and the rich live behind walls while the rabble scrounge for food in the garbage heaps.

[Southack]

"illegals in CA must be making BIG,tax free, bucks (plus freebies) or they wouldn't have been able to invade one of our most EXPENSIVE states to live in."

Register them, and register their employers, and then you'll know if they are being paid Minimum Wage or Union Scale or whatever.

Too many of you are against registering illegals with our government. Well let me tell you a little secret, if the gun banners ever get their way, the first thing that they'll do is register all of us gun owners...because they know that it's easier to BAN something or someone after they are registered than when they are anonymous.

President Bush's plan registers illegals and their employers.

You people oppose President Bush's plan. You oppose registering illegals and their employers. You want the status quo. You don't want anything to change. You don't really want the illegal immigration problem to be solved. It must just be a convenient hammer for you to bash away at Bush on by claiming that our borders are out of control...because you are opposing the very registration that would help bring back control of our borders.

[Sam the Sham]

Why is it that stupid complacency reigns among pro-illegals ?

Apparently you didn't notice but that was one damn close election.

[Nick Danger]

The Republicans need to figure this issue out correctly for the long run. They are far from that status as of now.

I don't think we know that. Bush's behavior is indistinguishable from that of a guy who knows exactly how to play it correctly for the long term.

The correct play is to bait the Democrats into taking up this issue. Let the Democrats think they see an opening; let them make this issue theirs.

Pete Wilson in California bought into this. He thought he was going to make the Republicans the majority party for a generation by getting tough on those illegals. The California GOP has not recovered yet from that blunder.

No, let some Democrat play the role of Pete Wilson in the re-make. Drive the Mexican-Americans into the arms of the GOP, and the Dems won't win another national election for a hundred years.