Posted on 12/31/2004 5:43:33 AM PST by white trash redneck
Whew, with your above passage, no wonder hillary has found a small constituency on FR.
BTW, when you all can show gestapo guards, pointing machine guns, at those "slaves" building houses, in America, then maybe you will be taken seriously, you won't though, for that doesn't happen in America, no matter your hyperbole.
No, the point I'm addressing is that under the Bush plan illegal aliens would have an advantage in being accepted to the "guest worker" program because they are already matched with employers by virtue of their illegal employment. Law abiding foreign nationals never had a chance to compete for those jobs, and would therefore be at a disadvantage.
So, a guest worker program that legalizes illegal aliens does so at the expense of those who haven't broken our laws.
In addition, to reward a behavior is to encourage it.
Read what I wrote again. You missed the point. The mistake she ALREADY HAS MADE is the fact that she has already aligned herself with Marxists. Marxist theory is the ONLY "morality" she will be able to wrap herself in. It's the same "morality" that Kerry and everyone else on the Left embraces. When Liberals are EXPOSED for who they are, they can't win national elections.
You also realize that a lot of these folks are Catholics!
BTTT
It saddens me to wind up on the same side of an issue as a number of classic bigots. But anyone can get the analysis of an issue correct, despite of any specific barriers of prejudice.
The thesis of the article is correct. The Republicans need to figure this issue out correctly for the long run. They are far from that status as of now.
Congressman Billybob
The anti-Mexican fusilades and theatrics are approximate modern day equivalents of the "Rum, Romanism and Rebellion" anti-Irish Know-Nothingism and stupidity of the 1880s GOP which delayed the journey of the Irish to the GOP by about 90 years.
Also, your diagnosis of Frum's argument seems at odds with his rendition on C-SPAN this morning. We are dealing with an issue---not a crisis of Biblical proportions. One solution is that people who seek freedom should be prepared to offer it. Offering that freedom to others may piss some people off, as you put it. That does not mean that the GOP should pander to people simply because they are pissed off. We aren't re-running the Ohio presidential vote of 2004 or the Florida presidential vote of 2000 either no matter how many delusionals are "pissed off."
Also anyone imagining himself or herself as a conservative but clinging to Border Obsessives for Hillary!!!!! as a guideline for 2008 and succeeduing at electing her will get the government (and ten times more of it than necessary) that he or she deserves. It Takes a Village to Do Your Hair, Cut Your Lawn, Decide What You Want for Lunch and Everything Else; It Takes the Demonratic National Committee to Set your Tax Rates; It Takes Al Qaeda to Run the State Department; Anti-Faith Based Social Programs and Re-Education Camps; etc.; etc.; etc.; ad infinitum et incarceratum ad nauseam.
As ever, the pro-cheap labor lobby whines "anti-Mexican", "racist" whenever their agenda of reducing America to Third World level is questioned. Why, all California has to do is reduce it's levels of health care and education spending to Mexican levels and the budget problem is solved ! And we will leave aside the nonsensical argument about Canada (as if sneaking across the Dakotas on foot were a viable al-Qaeda route). Canada isn't sending masses of poor people to consume our social services (in fact, our elderly cross over to buy their prescription drugs cheap). I am not aware of any Canadian gangs in the Northwest.
Illegals are not political emigres, so your Eastern Europe analogy is ridiculous. They are Mexico's excess rural population, created by Mexico's failure to develop an economy to absorb them. No sovereign state has the right to dump its problems on its neighbors and we certainly have no duty to accept them. And as it happens a massive influx of poor people has overwhelmed public services in California (your solution. get rid of public education). And as happens historically immigrant communities create gangs. The Irish did. The Italians did. The Jews did. The Chinese, Vietnamese and Russians did. And now we have Mara Salvatrucha. Face it. Illegal immigrants have become such a plague that unless the GOP rejects your approach and gets serious it will cost the GOP the Southwest.
And how exactly do you get America to "horselaugh" at Hillary when most Americans find the "Clinton-haters" tinfoil hat fringe nuts ?
Hillary has got several big guns she can use to blow the GOP out of the water. Immigration, the GOP is so out of touch with real Americans on this issue that the GOP may as well be on Mars. And then there is the huge budget deficit. Hillary will remind voters that Bill balanced the budget and was actually paying down the national debt. And then there is the GOP version of "free trade" and "out-sourcing". Hillary or another creditable Democrat running on immigration, federal spending and jobs would wipe the floor with a GOP candidate forced to defend the Bush administrations record on these issues.
It saddens me to wind up on the same side of an issue as a number of classic bigots. But anyone can get the analysis of an issue correct, despite of any specific barriers of prejudice.
The thesis of the article is correct. The Republicans need to figure this issue out correctly for the long run. They are far from that status as of now.
Congressman Billybob
You're funny. Your post at #187 ignored the question posed twice at #183:
Is it good to reward lawbreakers at the expense of those who obey the laws?
You ignored it a third time at #195.
Afterall according to your overall rhetoric on FR those buildings are illegal/impure.
Unless there is a law against those buildings, I don't see how they could be illegal. I don't recall ever posting on the subject of what might be "impure," but feel free to post a link.
Now:
Is it good to reward lawbreakers at the expense of those who obey the laws?
Your post to which I respond is the best in show on this or probably any other thread today. It is indeed our business to begin immediately the process of educating the American public about Alinsky and Shrillery's Alinskyite roots and to destroy her accordingly. We could also profit from unsealing her sealed senior thesis at Wellesley, written when she was directly involved with Alinsky efforts.
Bravo! Bravissimo! Congratulations! Thanks!
Is it good to reward lawbreakers at the expense of those who obey the laws?
Uh no, the question was posed to you after your rhetorical question(Is it good to reward lawbreakers(who build houses, clean toilets).
Like I said before, this debate is like the chicken and the egg.
JMO, people building houses are not criminals. Criminals are those who break into houses(and they come in all ethnicites).
There are indeed some very thoughtful and well written posts on this thread. Giving all the competing considerations, and the relatively high stakes, getting immigration policy just right isn't easy - it's at least as tough as sailing the Magellan Straits in winter. We need to have the hyperbolic howling on both sides abate in order to have a chance of making it through.
Thank you for your post--it serves to teach and enlighten--the more I know, the more I need to know and want to know.
LOL! Wipe your keyboard.
Also, your diagnosis of Frum's argument seems at odds with his rendition on C-SPAN this morning. We are dealing with an issue---not a crisis of Biblical proportions.
My mind must be going. Do you have a link to my "Biblical proportions" post?
Here's Frum's lead paragraph:
No issue, not one, threatens to do more damage to the Republican coalition than immigration. There's no issue where the beliefs and interests of the party rank-and-file diverge more radically from the beliefs and interests of the party's leaders. Immigration for Republicans in 2005 is what crime was for Democrats in 1965 or abortion in 1975: a vulnerable point at which a strong-minded opponent could drive a wedge that would shatter the GOP.
That's a warning, don't you think?
Do you think former Bush speechwriter David Frum is advocating "pandering to hysterical anti-immigration, pro-population control and racial purity xenophobics?
Sounds a little overreductionist.
Superb points.
If the Democrats forget about cultural liberalism and get back to economic populism (of which being immigration hawks is a part) they will easily win in 2008.
It's not a rhetorical question. Attempt #6:
Is it good to reward lawbreakers at the expense of those who obey the laws?
Do you acknowledge that illegal aliens violate laws?
Is a "cultural conservative" a one-issue border-obsessive voter or a social issue conservative who will organize and vote for God, guns, straights, the Constitution, tax cuts, and keeping the military available for such matters as Iraq, Iran, Syria, Korea and defense of Taiwan as necessary, and against abortion, "gay" "rights", anti-Vietnam War purveyors of treason, neo-isolationists, etc.?
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